Using a BCR2000 midi controller with the Kronos (How To)

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QuiRobinez
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Using a BCR2000 midi controller with the Kronos (How To)

Post by QuiRobinez »

In the AL-1 versus KingKorg, there was an off topic discussion about using a Behringer BCR2000 for programming synth sounds. I have those series in my studio so I checked tonight if that worked. Here's the original post and my reply added in this thread.
Kronik wrote: Unfortunately(?), I also have a BCR2000, and I've had no luck at all with it... I think it's down to Korg's implementation of sysex data - certain parameters seem to require two variables (particularly for parameters that have negative values), and the BCR seems only to be able to handle ONE variable - some parameters work, some don't :(

@QuiRobinez - It would be great if you can confirm this one way or the other.
Ok, I just tried it, and the verdict is:

IT WORKS!!!

I have assigned 32 rotary knobs to the parameters I like most for programming the AL-1. In my BCR2000 I can now change:
- The oscillator 1 parameters
- The oscillator 2 parameters
- The filter type, cutoff and resonance
- The filter envelopes
- The amplitude envelopes
- The amplitude drive parameters
- LFO 1 and 2 settings

I needed about 5 minutes to create this template in the bcr2000 for the al-1. Now the hard part is to remember which knob controls which function since there are so many rotaries, so I need to create an overlay with the names for the knobs per engine in the next few days.

This is absolutely a big advantage to fast create the basics of your sound with the hardware knobs. The finetuning can be done on the kronos itself (like the fx settings)

Now the important question is how to do it, here's how:
- connect the BCR 2000 to your computer (not the kronos)
- open the famous kronos editor
- Select in the editor the BCR2000 for the midi output
- Then press the learn button on the bcr2000 and turn the rotary you want to assign
- Now use the mouse on your screen to change the parameter you want to learn that sysex code in the BCR2000. During the learning you see the text BAD on the BCR2000, keep changing the value with your mouse till the BCR has enough information to assign the Sysex code to the rotary. When it's done you see the text GOOD on the BCR, this goes rather quick.
- Do this for every knob or button you want to assign
- then press the Store button twice on the BCR2000 to save your template in the BCR itself.

Now connect the BCR2000 to the Kronos and open an AL-1 screen
start playing and turn the knobs.

DONE!
Now you have added 32 rotaries for programming the AL-1 module (you can also do this for the other engines.

I've checked the output of the knobs in Cubase, most knobs send the sysex codes that it has learned, some of the knobs are sending Control Changes, but that's all taken care of by the kronos editor during the learning phase.

I didn't discover any double byte values for the parameters I have choosen, but there are so many parameters that it could happen I guess that a specific parameter doesn't work.

also one thing to remember is that it's a one way street, when changing the parameter it isn't taking the value from the kronos, it only sends the value to it. You can solve this, but in that case you need to setup your computer and the kronos editor and assign the knobs to the editor itself. Personally I don't think it's a problem to use it directly on the kronos, but it's something you need to know I think.

Hope this helps :)
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Post by levioter »

Waooo !
Thanks a lot Qui !
That's awesome and always cristal clear !

Thanks again for sharing that with us big noobs !

Cheers :D
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Post by Ksynth »

Very handy stuff.

Did you follow any particular method in selecting the various controls (in the AL-1)? Or just at random?

I guess there are many fairly obvious ones.
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Post by Shakil »

That's great, but it works only in Program mode, not in Combi or SONG mode, correct?
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Post by Broadwave »

Thanks, Qui.

Looks like I'm going to be busy today :)
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Post by QuiRobinez »

Ksynth wrote:Very handy stuff.

Did you follow any particular method in selecting the various controls (in the AL-1)? Or just at random?

I guess there are many fairly obvious ones.
that's a good question, I only assigned the most obvious controls to the rotaries which you normally need for building a sound. Off course there are 100's of extra parameters that you can use, but i consider those as finetuning parameters. Just think of it like a standard VA synth, those controls are the most important ones for creating the base of the sound you want.

but off course you could set it up differently, like having 1 preset for the oscs, filters and envelopes and another preset for the AMS, step sequencer, LFO settings and another preset for the Effects, etc. That way you can have 100's of rotaries assigned to one sound.

Shakil wrote:That's great, but it works only in Program mode, not in Combi or SONG mode, correct?
correct, in combi and song mode you can change the sounds in tone control mode, but that's different than programming an engine directly, since these are modifications of the parameters of the programmed sound that are stored in the song or combi.
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Post by Bertotti »

Thanks for the insight! Now a question, why does it have to go through the editor? Did the Kronos not recognize the device? I was hoping I wouldn't need to get the computer involved. Thanks!
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Post by QuiRobinez »

Bertotti wrote:Thanks for the insight! Now a question, why does it have to go through the editor? Did the Kronos not recognize the device? I was hoping I wouldn't need to get the computer involved. Thanks!
The kronos does recognise the device but it doesn't sent the sysex codes to the BCR device which you need to learn the sysex parameter per Rotary.

Maybe the kronos sends it through the midi out connector instead of USB, but i didn't test it that way (it was a quick test), and my guess is that the undocumented sysex codes aren't sent to midi or usb out when you change a parameter.

So that's why i used the computer editor since this editor communicates through sysex to each parameter directly.
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Post by Bald Eagle »

Bertotti wrote:Thanks for the insight! Now a question, why does it have to go through the editor? Did the Kronos not recognize the device? I was hoping I wouldn't need to get the computer involved. Thanks!
I'm a bit confused now. Do you have to leave the BCR 2000 permanently connected to the computer or can you break that connection after configuring it and use it standalone with Kronos?
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Post by QuiRobinez »

Bald Eagle wrote:
Bertotti wrote:Thanks for the insight! Now a question, why does it have to go through the editor? Did the Kronos not recognize the device? I was hoping I wouldn't need to get the computer involved. Thanks!
I'm a bit confused now. Do you have to leave the BCR 2000 permanently connected to the computer or can you break that connection after configuring it and use it standalone with Kronos?
only for the programming you need to connect it to the computer. Once it's programmed you can use it standalone with the kronos.
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Post by Bertotti »

Ah! Thanks! That is great news. I may forgo a small controller in lieu of one of these.
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Post by vinylwizard »

using the editor to save you deciphering sysex codes is a good idea. I might try this on my lemur ipad to allow easier editing of AL1, STR1 and MOD-7.

Good thinking! -the editor sucks apart from that, such a waste of time.
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Post by X-Trade »

Oh my god. That's brilliant.

I am going to have to buy one of these after all.
Current Gear: Kronos 61, RADIAS-R, Volca Bass, ESX-1, microKorg, MS2000B, R3, Kaossilator Pro +, MiniKP, AX3000B, nanoKontrol, nanoPad MK II,
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Post by Bald Eagle »

These are looking nice. You can get both the BCF2000 and BCR2000 for half the price of a Mackie Control Universal Pro. I wonder if there would be any real advantage of going with a Mackie instead.
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Post by Bertotti »

There was a post not to long ago about mapping some external faders to the cx3 drawbars. I wonder if mapping the controller through the editor would also cure that posters problem. Aside from the extra rotaries I still struggle to decide which is a better path for me at his time the novation sl25mkii a BC series controller. Topic for a differen thread. But it seems now th editor has a different level of very useful functionality! Gotta focus on the positives when we can eh!
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