Goliath was recently announced at NAMM 08:
http://namm.harmony-central.com/WNAMM08 ... ction.html
Is this the definitive Oasys killer (in software form)?
Goliath vs Oasys
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Kevin Nolan
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Listen -
In the last year or two I acquired East West Platinum Pro XP, Symphonic Choirs, RA and Voices of Passion for various purposes. They are excellent - but they are a bucket of work.
The lure of sample packages is intense when looking in from the outside, but when they arrive - that's what arrives - a bucket of samples and a bucket of work to use them. I cannot use Platinum Pro XP anywhere close to the best string programs on OASYS available immediately (no doubt others can but it is a lot of work). I may eventually get there with Platinum (and I just purchased a 750 page book called 'The Guide to MIDI Orchestration' to help) - but IMO sample packages, no matter how good they are, are hugely misrepresented in adverts and hugely underestimated in terms of how much work is needed to actually get good results from them.
The more I use sample packages the more I appreciate workstations - back to the M1, T3 and SY77, let alone OASYS. You do not realise the gargantuan effort put in by top-notch experts into a Workstation Program or Comb set, aimed at getting you up and running fast but with the very best programs that can be created at the time; with literally hundreds of person-years of design and programming experience in one box - and while there's no doubt that the best sample packages have incredible potential, most individuals do not have the time to put into getting there.
Look at what Vangelis did with Bladerunner for example - not a sample package in sight (ok they wern't out then) - but none the less he used just a set of actual instruments that could respond immediately to his emotion and performance - that's what it's all about. You won't find him sitting for months trying to manually 'construct' dynamics and feel.
That's why Roland's V-Synth GT and Fantom G are of interest to me - Roland are currently making big efforts through COSM, D-Beams and Supernatural, as have Korg with OASYS and indeed the likes of the lovely R3, to give immediacy to stunning internal synthesizer engines. There'll always be a place for that for people who want to actually 'play'.
I think Korg and Roland have found their way at the moment. Whether it be S&S workstations or synthesis, they are offering innovative and performance orientated instruments that are sophisticated and forward looking. Yamaha has lost their way incredibly. When you look at their legacy - GX1, CS80, CP80, GS1, DX1/7, SY77/99 and VL1, their extraordinarily ordinary Motif (by comparison to either their legacy or to what else is available) and their utter lack on innovation in the past ten years, it looks like they have lost their way.
But Korg and Roland seem to be hugely bucking the trend - they are innovative and exciting once again, whether compared to Yamaha, compared to the myriad of new synth companies releasing what are essentially digital versions of the middle-of-the-road synthesizers of past; and most certainly in terms of user suppot / capabilities 'out of the box' of dedicated sample packages. Vienna may be trying addressing that through their 'Instruments', but IMO it will take a lot more research, computing power, perhaps even AI and incredible integration between sample packages and Sequencers/Scoring Packages before their purpose can be adequately realised and before this lates offering will excite me.
OASYS is on very firm ground and in very good company with the arrival of Fantom G.
Kevin.
In the last year or two I acquired East West Platinum Pro XP, Symphonic Choirs, RA and Voices of Passion for various purposes. They are excellent - but they are a bucket of work.
The lure of sample packages is intense when looking in from the outside, but when they arrive - that's what arrives - a bucket of samples and a bucket of work to use them. I cannot use Platinum Pro XP anywhere close to the best string programs on OASYS available immediately (no doubt others can but it is a lot of work). I may eventually get there with Platinum (and I just purchased a 750 page book called 'The Guide to MIDI Orchestration' to help) - but IMO sample packages, no matter how good they are, are hugely misrepresented in adverts and hugely underestimated in terms of how much work is needed to actually get good results from them.
The more I use sample packages the more I appreciate workstations - back to the M1, T3 and SY77, let alone OASYS. You do not realise the gargantuan effort put in by top-notch experts into a Workstation Program or Comb set, aimed at getting you up and running fast but with the very best programs that can be created at the time; with literally hundreds of person-years of design and programming experience in one box - and while there's no doubt that the best sample packages have incredible potential, most individuals do not have the time to put into getting there.
Look at what Vangelis did with Bladerunner for example - not a sample package in sight (ok they wern't out then) - but none the less he used just a set of actual instruments that could respond immediately to his emotion and performance - that's what it's all about. You won't find him sitting for months trying to manually 'construct' dynamics and feel.
That's why Roland's V-Synth GT and Fantom G are of interest to me - Roland are currently making big efforts through COSM, D-Beams and Supernatural, as have Korg with OASYS and indeed the likes of the lovely R3, to give immediacy to stunning internal synthesizer engines. There'll always be a place for that for people who want to actually 'play'.
I think Korg and Roland have found their way at the moment. Whether it be S&S workstations or synthesis, they are offering innovative and performance orientated instruments that are sophisticated and forward looking. Yamaha has lost their way incredibly. When you look at their legacy - GX1, CS80, CP80, GS1, DX1/7, SY77/99 and VL1, their extraordinarily ordinary Motif (by comparison to either their legacy or to what else is available) and their utter lack on innovation in the past ten years, it looks like they have lost their way.
But Korg and Roland seem to be hugely bucking the trend - they are innovative and exciting once again, whether compared to Yamaha, compared to the myriad of new synth companies releasing what are essentially digital versions of the middle-of-the-road synthesizers of past; and most certainly in terms of user suppot / capabilities 'out of the box' of dedicated sample packages. Vienna may be trying addressing that through their 'Instruments', but IMO it will take a lot more research, computing power, perhaps even AI and incredible integration between sample packages and Sequencers/Scoring Packages before their purpose can be adequately realised and before this lates offering will excite me.
OASYS is on very firm ground and in very good company with the arrival of Fantom G.
Kevin.
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MartinHines
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- Location: Topeka, KS (USA)
Goliath is primarily a repackaging of existing EastWest library sample content (Colossus and PMI Bosendorfer), put in their new PLAY sample player.
Goliath is 40 GB of content:
-- 32 GB Colossus
-- 2.2 GB PMI Bosendorfer
-- 8 GB of new content from "the latest" EW/QL Collections (probably content from VOP, MOR, Fab Four, Gypsy, SD2)
A few years ago East West decided to stop licensing Native Instruments' Kompakt engine (based on Kontakt) and build their own internal player (called "PLAY"). East West has grandious plans for the PLAY engine, but I suspect it will take a number of years to get to the same level as the Kontakt engine is now.
I have listened to Collossus and there are some really good sounds. However, many of the sounds are inconsistent when compared with each other.
One of the problems of the computer software-based sample libraries is their primary marketing tool is the size of the library, which everyone equates to quality. Hardware workstation like M3 has 256 MB of Sound ROM (.25 GB) compared to 32 GB of Colossus -- should sound 128 times better yes? Incorrect.
Computer software based products have already taken a chunk of workstation sales, simply because of the extremely low cost of a computer solution (compared with proprietary hardware).
I would say that if you are interested in a good general purpose software sample based ROMpler, Goliath would probably work out well.
Goliath is 40 GB of content:
-- 32 GB Colossus
-- 2.2 GB PMI Bosendorfer
-- 8 GB of new content from "the latest" EW/QL Collections (probably content from VOP, MOR, Fab Four, Gypsy, SD2)
A few years ago East West decided to stop licensing Native Instruments' Kompakt engine (based on Kontakt) and build their own internal player (called "PLAY"). East West has grandious plans for the PLAY engine, but I suspect it will take a number of years to get to the same level as the Kontakt engine is now.
I have listened to Collossus and there are some really good sounds. However, many of the sounds are inconsistent when compared with each other.
One of the problems of the computer software-based sample libraries is their primary marketing tool is the size of the library, which everyone equates to quality. Hardware workstation like M3 has 256 MB of Sound ROM (.25 GB) compared to 32 GB of Colossus -- should sound 128 times better yes? Incorrect.
Computer software based products have already taken a chunk of workstation sales, simply because of the extremely low cost of a computer solution (compared with proprietary hardware).
I would say that if you are interested in a good general purpose software sample based ROMpler, Goliath would probably work out well.
Hi Kevin,Kevin Nolan wrote:Listen -
In the last year or two I acquired East West Platinum Pro XP, Symphonic Choirs, RA and Voices of Passion for various purposes. They are excellent - but they are a bucket of work.
The lure of sample packages is intense when looking in from the outside, but when they arrive - that's what arrives - a bucket of samples and a bucket of work to use them. I cannot use Platinum Pro XP anywhere close to the best string programs on OASYS available immediately (no doubt others can but it is a lot of work).
did you check the Karo strings? I´am shure It Is the best string library available for OASYS! I have listen all..... Garritan, EW, VSL and others, but belive me, when you play the Karo strings on your OASYS then you are never ask about string sounds
