Possible CX-3 bug

xtatty · Post by **xtatty** » Thu Oct 17, 2013 3:48 pm

I created a patch in an empty slot in Combi mode.

I placed a CX-3 patch (U-C041 Organ Perc 3rd SW1) in timber 1 and
2 Brass sounds (I-C072 Full Brass Section) in octaves in the 3rd and 4th Timber.
I copied them with their effects with the function "copy from program".

When i saved the patch everything sounded OK. I changed, tried another patch and came back to the one i made again to make a modification.

I wanted to use the organ sound in another MIDI channel, to be played by an external MIDI controller . So i placed it in channel 2 and everything else in 1G. At the end i had the patch i wanted; brass played on KRONOS and organ on the MIDI controller. I saved the patch and played with it and everything sounded OK.

Now comes the bug!!!
When i switched to another patch and came back to play again with this one, the organ sound played with very low volume . Whatever i did or do, i can't get it to play with it's normal volume!

I tried creating the patch again and the same thing happens always!

Can anyone replicate the same in his KRONOS?

phattbuzz · Post by **phattbuzz** » Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:15 pm

http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... ht=#427184
Had this problem quite a while back and I really am not sure how it was fixed. Is your operating system up to date?

xtatty · Post by **xtatty** » Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:26 pm

Yes. I have OS 2.0.6

Also, i tried creating the patch with no pedals or MIDI controllers attached to KRONOS.
After i created the patch, i connected the MIDI controller and the organ's volume was very low again!

BillW · Post by **BillW** » Thu Oct 17, 2013 5:14 pm

I've run into all kinds of combi bugs (portamento suddenly on in every patch, inconsistent volumes when changing combis while using an expression pedal, etc), but haven't seen this one yet. Have you tried swapping the position of the organ and the brass?

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Thu Oct 17, 2013 5:22 pm

You could get this effect if your midi controller is sending volume (CC#07), expression (CC#11) or foot pedal (CC#04) and probably a host of other things. Are you completely sure you're sending only notes from the controller?

xtatty · Post by **xtatty** » Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:57 pm

SanderXpander wrote:You could get this effect if your midi controller is sending volume (CC#07), expression (CC#11) or foot pedal (CC#04) and probably a host of other things. Are you completely sure you're sending only notes from the controller?

I'm sure my midi controller it is not transmitting any of these commands.

Midi controller functions perfectly with every other patch except this one. And as i mentioned the patch plays normally during the time i' m creating it. Even after i save it plays normally.
The problem occurs after i select another patch and then go back to the new that i created!

Nothing i tried helps. Setting back the CX-3 sound to midi channel 1G or even enabling Karma thru. The patch in U-C041 (Organ Perc 3rd SW1) program bank plays normally though, loud and clear!

I believe that if you try to follow the steps i explained in the initial post, you will be able to replicate the bug.

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:49 pm

i'll give it a try next time I get the chance. I'm just trying to think of things that might cause this, other than a bug. 90 percent of things reported as bugs turn out to be some setting or unintended thing going on that people missed.

E.g. CX3 is the only engine that reacts to Foot Pedal CC#04 with volume by default. So IF your controller were to send out CC#04 at a value lower than 127 for some reason, all your patches would be normal (unaffected), only CX3 would react and only if played from your controller (not from the Kronos kb since it's on a different channel). If your controller has a broken pedal input this could happen too. That's just an example though, if you say your controller is not doing that I'm sure you've checked.

Again, I'll try when next I get a chance. Perhaps I can figure something out.

xtatty · Post by **xtatty** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:54 am

I tried something else yesterday and now i'm sure that it is a CX-3 bug!

I made the patch from the begging. This time I used different Timber slots 6 and 7 for the brass sounds and 8 for the organ.

I didn't connect anything to Kronos, just the audio jack. When i mean anything i mean everything! Not even the damper pedal was connected!

Saved the sound with every patch in channel 1G and audition it. Everything sounded OK.

Then i changed the organ (CX-3) patch to channel 2. Of course at this point i could hear only the brass patches. I didn't connect my midi keyboard to audition the organ patch, because i was afraid that it might be responsible for the "so called" bug!
Instead i went to 'Global - Midi tab' and changed the Midi channel from 1 to 2. At this point i was able to audition the organ patch and not the brass. The organ's patch volume was extremely low!!! So the phenomenon occurred again.
Also changing the MIDI channel from 2 to 1 at GLOBAL section or at the Combi's settings, doesn’t restore the organs volume. It keeps sounding with low volume.

So the conclusion is that the midi keyboard connected to Kronos was not responsible for the organ’s low volume. Something else internally is causing it.

LZ · Post by LZ » Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:16 pm

I've found that anytime a CX3 sound is being controlled by any channel other than the global channel, it defaults to a low pedal setting if pedal is assigned to volume in the CX3 engine. The solution I use is to save CX3 programs that will be controlled remotely with the volume control set to "off" instead of "pedal". This does the trick.

I believe the issue is that without receiving anything, it just defaults to 64, which on most organ settings is fairly quiet. Locally, it can detect if a pedal is plugged in or not. If so, it uses pedal position. If not, it goes to 127. On a remote controller, it has no way to know if a pedal is plugged in or not. I don't think it's a bug, per se, just how they chose to implement it. I'd rather it default to 127 than 64.

danatkorg · Post by **danatkorg** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:08 pm

This is controlled by the CX-3's Expression Mode. Most if not all Programs use the "Both Overwrite" setting. Here's how that works:

Expression Level and AMS both write directly to the Expression level. If the Expression Level parameter is updated, it directly controls Expression, and the last value from AMS is ignored. If the AMS input moves, it also directly controls Expression, and the setting of the Expression Level parameter is ignored.

Normally, after a Program is selected, the Expression Level will be used until the AMS input moves. However, there is one exception to this. If the selected AMS source is the same as the one assigned to the Foot Pedal in Global P2-1 Controllers, then the Program will initially use the AMS input, until (and unless) the Expression Level setting is changed. This prevents abrupt jumps in level when using the expression pedal and switching between Programs.

Note: if the Foot Pedal is assigned to an AMS source, but a pedal is not physically connected to the KRONOS, the result is the same as if the pedal was pressed down all the way: the AMS signal will be at its maximum value.

If you regularly use a pedal to control Expression, but then for some reason need to play without the pedal, simply go to Global P2-1 Controllers and set Foot Pedal Assign to None. You can then use Knob 3 in Tone Adjust to control Expression as desired (assuming that the sound uses the default Tone Adjust configuration).