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mdh · Junior Member Joined: 05 Oct 2007 Posts: 76

I'm attempting to setup a combi for my normal live requirements.
So I've taken UA000 and have (factory) programs on timbres 1-9 in this order (the other 7 channels are muted):

1: Int A000
2: Int C035
3: Int F001
4: Usr A000
5: Usr A001
6: Int A008
7: Int C009
8: Int B090
9: Int F084

They all have the full keyboard range and are set to midi channel 1g so I can play them. What I'm attempting to do is have a lead voice (be it piano, organ, polysynth or sax) and pull up a pad behind it (vocal, string). To me it sounds like a pretty simple layer. I'm using the sliders to adjust which timbres are audible.

My problem is that the polyphony drops to 4 notes. If I play a C2 chord (2nd inversion) with the dominant low & high (octave) with the right hand and a similarly octave bass C with the left, what is audible is a random selection of 4 notes (I tend to drop the bass down first, so I'll lose two notes from the right hand).

I've played around a bit trying to diagnose this problem; it seems that the more programs are added to the combi the worse it gets, also going to the dropdown menu and copying a program in (I check all the boxes) fixes the problem for the very next chord hit - then it returns. Even stranger, using the damper pedal generally ensures the problem occurs (which is the exact opposite of what I'd expect the damper to do!)

I know I'm doing something wrong - can someone experienced point out what that is?

I have the 76 key oasys, running 1.3 and mod-7 authorised (but not LAC1 - that can be next pay day Wink

EDIT: I've done some more playing around, seems like the stock EXs1 piano is fine but all the EXs2 pianos (4&5 above) are crud even if every other channel is muted. They both play fine in program mode.

pegnafroy · Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:03 am Post subject:

Hi:

That's ocurs because every timbre in your combi is played, even if vol is totally pulled down. And most sounds are dual and with stereo samples, that's mean 1 timbre uses 4 notes of poliphony when just one note is played (multiply this for 9 timbres).

Try make different mixes of sounds (with 3 or 4 sounds, with velocity switching and different keyzones) and change them with a foot switch, instead of have it all in one patch and using sliders and pedals to make them appear at your speakers.

Saludos desde Peñaflor, Chile.

Froilán
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pegnafroy · Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:04 am Post subject:

Sorry, double post.

Saludos desde Peñaflor, Chile.

Froilán
_________________
http://www.490.cl/votar.php?v=85

Si no puedes contra ellos, cambia de vocalista...

jerrythek · Platinum Member Joined: 28 Jan 2002 Posts: 2931

The answers above are correct - all the Timbres ARE playing all the time, just with their volume lowered.

There is another cool way to help - Use the P2-Timbre Parameter KARMA Timbre OFF control.

You can set some Timbres to be on and then others to be turned on/off when you press the KARMA On/Off switch. This DOES turn off the timbres when they are not being used.

Just be sure you have no KARMA Modules set to play, of course.

Try it out, it's a cool performance benefit that came out of the needs for KARMA voicing.

Regards,

Jerry

pegnafroy · Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:54 pm Post subject:

that's is like having a Variation of the patch, like roland's XP series.

Saludos desde Santiago de Chile

Froilán
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Si no puedes contra ellos, cambia de vocalista...

Anashwaran · Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:57 pm Post subject:

Another point in this:
How much effects are you using?
Go to page > P8: Insert Effect >> Insert FX, and you see your effects, and the voices left (top of the page)
When you load programs fully into your combi they come everytime with their effects and that will take a lot of polyphony.
You might arrange your routings, so that some programs use the same effect or use only the MFX/TFX effects. This will also help.
Every effect you don't use has to be put on >>>: No effect!
ON /Off is not enough! It will still take its resources even if it is off!
This helped me a lot. You cannot just use everything with this allocated memory-stuff.
Just check that out
Jai JAi
Anashwaran
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EJ2 · Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 8:50 pm Post subject:

One technique I use in designing my combis to avoid/reduce note stealing is to set some/all of the timbres to one oscillator - OSC 1 or OSC 2. You'll need to audition the results, however, to determine whether there is little or no difference, or whether that move has a negative impact on the sound(s) desired.

Now, if you do decide to do this, be very careful you don't overwrite the factory preset. Save your edited version to a user bank with the name slightly altered to indicate it is a version of the original.

Cheers,
Eric
_________________
Cheers,
Jim (aka EJ2) Karma-Lab Associate Combi Developer

CATALYST v 2 Blast of Inspiration for KRONOS & OASYS: http://www.karma-lab.com/sounds/catalyst2.html
CATALYST v 1 Combi Explosion for KRONOS, OASYS, M3, & K-M50: http://www.karma-lab.com/sounds/catalyst1.html
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jerrythek · Platinum Member Joined: 28 Jan 2002 Posts: 2931

Yes, another good idea. But try my suggestions first - it's the most effective way to get at what you're trying to do... then also do this.

Smile

Regards,

Jerry

ldascanio · Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 10:32 pm Post subject:

Please also check the following parameters:

TIMBRE PARAMETER > MIDI Tab ---> Timbre priority

TIMBRE PARAMETER > OSC Tab ----> Max # of Notes

They won't give you more total polyphony but could help you to have the main parts flowing at the expense of the background (pad).

Rgds.

Edited:
Try also MIDI FILTER/ ZONES > MIDI FILTER 1 Tab -----> Enable damper.

Deactivating the damper pedal for timbres that don't really need damping will also help.
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mwiik · Joined: 21 Mar 2006 Posts: 41

This is one major problem that I have also when playing in live situations. I have complained about the timbre mute buttons that they actually mutes the volume and the timbre is still taking up lots of polyphony.

I use the Karma Timbre on/off control for now, and I have been promised that Korg will change the function of the Mute buttons in a future OS update. Well, it's on the wishlist anyway Very Happy

. What I want is a possibility to change the behaviour so they work as Zone buttons instead. They mute MIDI instead of volume. And then the Oasys will be a kick-ass mother keyboard.

Still waiting for OS 2.0 Wink

Regards
M Wiik
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EJ2 · Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:59 pm Post subject:

Hi M,
Yes, it would be great if muting any timbre allows for recovered polyphony. But for now, try my technique on all those combis you use live.
Cheers,
Eric
_________________
Cheers,
Jim (aka EJ2) Karma-Lab Associate Combi Developer

CATALYST v 2 Blast of Inspiration for KRONOS & OASYS: http://www.karma-lab.com/sounds/catalyst2.html
CATALYST v 1 Combi Explosion for KRONOS, OASYS, M3, & K-M50: http://www.karma-lab.com/sounds/catalyst1.html
CHEMISTRY 3, a Groove Injection for Your Karma: http://www.karma-lab.com/sounds/chem3.html
SoundCloud MP3 Demoshttps://soundcloud.com/ej2-sc

mdh · Junior Member Joined: 05 Oct 2007 Posts: 76

Thanks everyone for your suggestions. I've had much better luck keeping combis simple when voicing everything through midi channel 1, and have invested in a foot controller to quickly change programs. I'm going to try the KARMA thing too (thanks Jerry!) when my head doesn't explode into candy just thinking about it Dancing