Korg Forums

[Reggmail]

I was reading most of the post on the Zero's inability to deliver what it promise to deliver, then we all try to find workarounds to fix a problem that sometimes (Korg) or other companies can't seem to duplicate in their lab or sometimes deny that the problem even exist at all.
Although Korg is admitting to the midi sync problem as far as some others end users ''myself included'' are complaining about, it is also a problem with the cueing that Korg does not agree with.

I've tried almost every way I could imagine to get the midi clock to work in the full version of Ableton Live as well as Traktor and to no avail, only BPM would sync and everyone knows that's short lived, it stray's off the beat unless you tap or adjust the BPM. (That's why this mixer midi sync should work... we paid for that.)

Workarounds with cueing issues ( Korg Asio drivers, standard one sound card at a time) way is using 2 channels, for one PC program mixer channel, one on (Midi) for controlling.... another channel selected to (Midi + audio) for cueing. Using the Zero 4 + 8 in that way you will lose the proper cueing from the (midi) selected channel, and you will lose more than half of your midi controllers from the ( midi + audio ) selected channel.
That's 2 channels for 1 PC program channel for control + proper cueing.
Why then did Korg give us a routing program on CD that do not seem to work when assigning audio output, such as master routings, pre, post, and other routing?
Why should we as consumers have to go through things like using a hole mixer as a controller if its a sound card as well? (you paid lots of money for the convenience of both in one unit)
Why do you need to sacrifice ( ether full midi control with no cue or part midi control and cue?)
It seems that we are trying to deal with the issues and this company putting out product that's not working.
This is, in my opinion called the Xbox syndrome of false advertisement. (The manual says it doe's, BUT IT DOSE NOT WORK.) Its safe but its not, like (Mattel) companies lyeing to us.

For the life of me I don't understand how Korg, who knows Midi, been doing it for years and specialize in musicale equipment for musicians such as keyboards, Drum machines, Hardware DAW's that is the heart, the center operation revolves around Midi syncing, how did they blow this one? at best someone should show some accountability (maybe get fired) and a fix should be out immediately. (with no approximate fix date in sight, like saying to (us) your supporters... just deal with it, who cares)

Just a thought, I believe companies need to be held accountable for product that don't deliver, we need to spread the word about it and ''in extreme cases'' pursue class action law suits on those that take our money,
give false promises, rush product and don't deliver.
I'm not saying take Korg to court ( right now at lease) I am saying that I buy this gear to be a producer, DJ, musician and is forced to spend many days and sleepless nights being a technician, and after the frustration with this gear, you have no creativity left after that, so you pay for more than just a mixer not working properly. (This mixer have the potential of being one of the best on the market today....Korg needs to step up to the plate and GET IT TOGATHER)
any good lawyers out there? Just needed to vent.

[subterFUSE]

Using the MIDI clock with Ableton is one area I have not yet figured out, myself.

I have been successful in getting the sync setup, and then using the Zero8 to control Live's master tempo. But, like you said, the corrections made by Auto BPM are too inaccurate for mixing.

In addition, there is no way to get the Arrangement Position in Live to coincide with your external source. So... what this means is that you must set Live to use "Quantization = None" in order to launch your clips in sync with your external audio sources.

But when you do that, you can't return to say... 1 Bar Quantization, because the Arrangement Position will not be correct. You won't be able to launch more clips in Live because they would be out of sync. (i.e. first beat of a bar not lined up to 1st beat of a bar on the other clip)


The Cueing issue is an annoyance, to be sure. But not the end of the world. I don't absolutely need 8 simultaneous MIDI tracks going at once. But if I owned a Zero 4, I would be very pissed off about this. Having 7/8 channels is fine. Having 3/4 is much more of a problem.


Overall, I have to say that as I have spent more time playing with my Zero8 I have become more satisfied with it. So I am planning on keeping it. Hopefully these issues will be handled in a firmware update one day.

[splurt]

the cue issue doesnt bother me that much

[Reggmail]

That hissing is not happening with mine and lots of people that are on other forums who has the Zero 4 + 8
mixers.
If you just purchased it, send it or take it back and request another one. You may be able to do that within the first 30 days of purchase.
If it's a store near you go and try another one to confirm that it's your mixer and not all Zero mixers or how you may be using it. Try and duplicate your setup in the store the way your using it with the hum.
Most stores have a specialist in that department that may can check it with you.
The cueing is one of the most important function on a DJ mixer, ''and for remixing'' the midi problem is just as important. Korg mixer still have the potential of being one of the best mixers on the market.
Whoever drooped the ball at (Korg Japan) needs to pick it back up, and get crackin.
GET IT TOGATHER KORG.

[elviscat]

wow doesn't this sound like the Xone3D midi sync problems in fact identical problems.

Once again many many many nights trying trying, butin the end it would seem it is in fact the inability of the technology.

A&H are also stating as far as they are concerned it works fine...mmm 'What a load of horse crap'

I just don;t think the technology is capable still!!

[splurt]

But the cueing works fine if you use 7 channels, and you use the 8th as a cue channel no?

[subterFUSE]

Yes, the cueing works fine if you give up one of your channels.

Here is the best way I can explain this for you:


If you are an Ableton user, you have 2 general ways you can mix.

1. Use Ableton to mix the music. (i.e. use software as your mixer) You route audio from each Track to the Master track in Ableton.

2. Use Ableton to play clips, and mix externally. (i.e. mix with hardware) You route audio from each track in Ableton to a separate channel on an external mixer, and then mix with the hardware.


The Korg Zero4/8 is capable of using both methods. You can set it to be a MIDI controller, or an Audio mixer. You can route the Master output from Ableton to play on the Zero4/8, or you can assign each track in Ableton to a channel in the Korg and then mix with the hardware.


I prefer to use method 1, mixing in the software. I prefer this method because it is better for recording. When you record with this method, you are just saving an .als file. The file size is small, and you can go back later and edit your set.

If you use method 2, and you want to record.... then you will be recording an audio stream. This means a larger file size, and no ability to go back and edit later.


If you use method 1, then you will have to use your Korg as a MIDI controller. So in order to play this way you must assign the Master output from Ableton to a channel on your Korg, and then assign the headphone cue output to a different channel.

Fortunately, you are able to leave the channel which master has been assigned to as a MIDI controller. This allows the music to play audibly, but it does not get affected by the MIDI controls. So you do not lose the functionality of this channel.

But the channel which has Cue assigned to it must be set in either the (Audio + MIDI) mode or the (Audio) mode. If you leave this channel is MIDI mode, then like the master channel... your MIDI controls will not affect the audio. So the music will play over the master and your audience would hear everything you are cueing.

So, this means you must give up one of your MIDI channels to Audio in order to have a headphone cue while mixing in Ableton.



If you decide to use method 2, then you do not lose one of your channels. With this method, you would route each track in Ableton to a separate channel on the Korg. Then you would set your Korg to either Audio or Audio+MIDI and you would mix the music on the Korg. Here, your Cueing would take place outside of the Ableton software, in your hardware mixer. You would not lose any of your channels with this method.

But you lose the benefits of using Ableton Live as your mixer. Instead, Ableton simply acts as a source device, like a turntable or CD player. If you want to record your mix, you must connect the output from your Korh to a recording device.... or route the master output back into your computer and record the audio stream.

[splurt]

i see, but this is exactly how i have always mixed live before computer software.. so for me its primarlity an audio mixer with midi functionality

[Reggmail]

What's up Splurt?
When using you Ableton Live recording drums, Hi Hat, etc going through the Zero 8 Mixer
you would need one channel for controlling fire wire midi controllers (set to midi)and another channel for proper audio cueing set to (Midi + audio).
As long as you are monitoring from the Zero 8 mixer you won't have any latency.
If you try to send midi information (Din plug in/out) to your drum machine clock, you would have a problem
because as of now, the midi din clocking device is not working properly.
Hope that helps.

[Reggmail]

Sense that revue back when the Zero4/8 mixers came out, many improvements have been implemented.
The first update address many problems and Korg has now put out this second update.
Good support from Korg, Thanks.



Thank you Korg for the support.
Maybe we could start a thread to suggest some issues that we like to see Korg / Japan work on for the next OS upgrade, some company's like Yamaha

http://www.motifator.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=1,2,4&Board=MotifXS&Number=392104&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=all

would conduct a survey and are asking for user input, hopefully more company's will fallow suite.
Who knows, we are the end users......... and nothing beats a failure but a try. To be directed to dowload site, click below.

Zero 8 / 4 New Drivers 1.60 Download: More fixes.

http://www.korguksupport.co.uk/page.cfm?pageid=620


Version1.6 Upgrades

Details of each Feature

1. Better Integration with NATIVE INSTRUMENTS TRAKTOR Scratch.
Version 1.6 provides the ability to use time coded CDs in addition to time coded vinyl, and either can be effortlessly set up.
Simply connect your turntables or CD players to your ZERO4 / 8 and connect the ZERO4 / 8 to your computer. * TRAKTOR Scratch is an optional component.

2. Automatic MIDI Clock Slave Function
ZERO4 / 8 can now slave to MIDI clock from host applications and hardware instruments alike. ZERO4 / 8 recognizes incoming MIDI Clock from Firewire MIDI or MIDI input automatically, which provides perfect sync of internal effects and the loop sampler. When slaving to incoming MIDI clock, the BPM indicator will read “EXT”. Additionally, if the MIDI clock signal is interrupted for an extended period, the Zero4 / 8 will switch to the internal clock.
[Note] Auto BPM will not function when MIDI clock is received.

3. Re-trigger Loop Sampler
The new Re-trigger function enables you to reset the start point of a loop sample. Simply press the KEEP button while LOOP PLAY or GATE PLAY is engaged. The update also allows you to toggle between LOOP PLAY and GATE PLAY by pressing one or the other.

4. Higher gain on Line Inputs
A +12dB pre gain has been added to the LINE input when LINE is selected via the INPUT SELECTOR knob. This allows for better gain adjustment when lower level devices are connected. In addition, the max. input level of the LINE terminal will be 10 dB.

5. The Cue balance curve has been adjusted for more consistent monitoring.
To improve cue monitoring, the level balance curve of CUE and MASTER for the MONITOR BAL knob has been that the CUE and MASTER volume levels reach the maximum level when the knob is centered.

6. When CUE SPLIT is ON, the MASTER side of the level meter has been changed to Pre Fader. When CUE SPLIT is ON, the master level indicator, on the right side of the master level meter has been changed to pre (master) fader level.


7. MUTE operation has been changed when AUDIO+MIDI is selected.
The MUTE operation has been changed so that the FX ON/MUTE switch can be used as a MIDI controller by tilting it to the MUTE side when AUDIO+MIDI is selected. With this new setting, the sound will not be muted.

8. A MONITOR FILTER has been added
A filter for cutting high notes and super deep notes has been added to the headphone output. This makes monitoring via the headphones easy in loud locations like a DJ setup.

Peace & blessings.

[nikit@]

I'm in total agreement with "slurp", this HISS problem has been an issue for more than a year now and Korg have done absolutely NOTHING to rectify the problem. This is simply taking honest customers for a ride, not only Korg but also vedors who obviously know about this problem and bring their prices down to rid themselves of their stock.
When known manufacturing problems happen to cars they are all called back to the manufacturers by law as it's considered dangerous, so users are protected by such laws. We , simple music lovers and honest consumers just get taken for a ride by these multinationals so why aren't there multinational laws to protect us against such fraud, yes I consider that it's FRAUDULENT to sell merchandise KNOWING it to be defectuous. So if we get our heads together and send e-mails to ALL KORG ZERO8 vendors informing them of the HISSING and VU-Meters problem then if they continue to sell it then they are liable for fraud, if they describe it as a flawless mixer and not declaring to would be buyers of its faults.
So if the web forums should be put into good use and not just CHAT then all who suffer from such abuse, after bringing it to light, it should then be turned into a legal proccess against KORG and their vendors. If this isn't done then we'll all just pissing agaisnt the wind (scuse).
JUST DO IT

[nikit@]

I'm in total agreement with "slurp", this HISS problem has been an issue for more than a year now and Korg have done absolutely NOTHING to rectify the problem. This is simply taking honest customers for a ride, not only Korg but also vedors who obviously know about this problem and bring their prices down to rid themselves of their stock.
When known manufacturing problems happen to cars they are all called back to the manufacturers by law as it's considered dangerous, so users are protected by such laws. We , simple music lovers and honest consumers just get taken for a ride by these multinationals so why aren't there multinational laws to protect us against such fraud, yes I consider that it's FRAUDULENT to sell merchandise KNOWING it to be defectuous. So if we get our heads together and send e-mails to ALL KORG ZERO8 vendors informing them of the HISSING and VU-Meters problem then if they continue to sell it then they are liable for fraud, if they describe it as a flawless mixer and not declaring to would be buyers of its faults.
So if the web forums should be put into good use and not just CHAT then all who suffer from such abuse, after bringing it to light, it should then be turned into a legal proccess against KORG and their vendors. If this isn't done then we'll all just pissing agaisnt the wind (scuse).
JUST DO IT