|
Korg Forums A forum for Korg product users and musicians around the world. Moderated Independently. Owned by Irish Acts Recording Studio & hosted by KORG USA
|
View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
Ruso Platinum Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2007 Posts: 984 Location: Sammamish, WA
|
Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 11:08 pm Post subject: [TIPS AND TRICKS] Clean and powerful music on the electribes |
|
|
Today I will discuss the most complicated aspect of making music on the electribes. Making clean, thick, rich sound. Although the only way to learn this area is through practice, there are many different things that you can do right off to help in this area even if you are a complete beginner.
Lets begin.
First I will mention that the most significant damage to the audio range is the fact that just about ALL of the sounds that come out of the electribe will hit just about ALL of the audible range. Which means without proper approach, all the sounds will effectively cancel each other out and make everything sound muddy.
The first tip I will say is GET NEW TUBES. They don't only change the tone and make electribes sound more smooth and organic, but they also give you a lot more leniency in leveling , filtering and mastering.
On the electribes there is one particular feature which I have found to cause a lot of problems. The accent feature was designed to add a slight volume boost to certain parts of the electribe. Now I do believe that just about none of you have ever used this feature because it appears to be useless.
The problem: By default the accent parts are turned on for ALL parts ot the emx and the esx effectively bringing the volume of ALL parts up. Naturally when creating patterns you will turn up everything making it as loud and clear as possible. This effectively causes digital clipping, and unnatural overdrive. Basically all your parts become too loud for the machine to be able to produce those peaks and it cuts all of them off so even tho it's all louder. It is muddy and distorted.
The solution: Turn off the accent part. The fastest way to do it i s to hit the accent buttons (both on the emx and just the one on the esx) and turning the level knob ALL the way down.
Now this probably does not sound like a big deal, but it really is. A lot of the electribe effects will screw up with sounds that are clipped. For example the reverb will pop and sound ugly and digital. The talk filter also has a lot of ugly artifacts like uncontrollable volume fluctuations where once in a while you will hear a huge spike in its sound which seems to happen almost on random. All the other effects with the accent part turned off simply sound better.
Next step: the drums(and one shot samples).
Drums and one shots are a core to your productions, they guide how everything else in the track happens and define the rhythm and flow of the tune as well as the people who are listening to it.
The problem: Drums use a lot of the audible range. First of all, the kicks can easily overpower the bass line, the snares can muffle synths, the hats can click everything out of the audible range placing it in the background.
The solution: Well there are several parts to this. first of all if you leave drums the way they are and just sequence there's almost no way to find a proper balance of synths and drums because one or the other will almost ALWAYS overpower the other one. The first thing that will help a million is cutting of the length of the drums. with amp eg set to one hit(peak and decay) cut the drum. The best way to do this is to cut the kick just to the point where you still have the bass but not the tail. Same goes for the snare: the long tails will take over all your sound. Same goes for the hats: short clicks sound better.
Another thing to be weary of on the electribes is the ugly compressor. It is a VERY noisy and has a lot of ugly digital artifacts. I would rather recommend compressing ALL of your gear as the last piece of your chain (before it goes to the amp). Apply a very small amount of compression, barely enough to be able to hear it.
Delays are nice on drums sometimes, but can cause a lot of extra noise. First of all if you're going to use it on kicks or snares, do not use mod delay, use bpm sync delay. And if you are only use a TINY amount of depth. Remember every extra delay is another chunk taken out of all the other parts. Another thing is to keep the hats so they hit and overlap each other rather then adding extra hits between... keep them flowing with the beat rather then throwing them off beat to try to add new rhythm(use the drums to create the rhythm, not the delays from drums)
The same effect applies to chorus and especially reverb. Be careful with reverb on drums, it is very noisy.
One extra step on the esx is to try to filter as much of the frequencies that you can not hear and do not relate to the drum as you can... for example cutting the bass frequencies out of snares and highs out of kicks... mids out of hats.
Tip: Keep as few elements as you can. One less drum goes a long way on clarity of all other parts... And try to keep away from long noisy parts... if you have to use one, filter out everything but the most significant sound(works best on the esx)
Here's an example where I have normal drums, cut them a little bit and add a bpm sync delay. In the end it's a crisp and clear drum rhythm.
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=622210&songID=6536459
Next step: Synths
Lets start with the bass line. Creating "phat" bass lines has side effects... if you got a loud bass line it will take over the song. The first thing you want to do is to filter out a little bit more then you like to. Remember you can always go back and adjust it later but let me tell you, filter it just a little bit more then you want to now, and you'll later discover the song sounding just that much clearer. Another thing about bass lines, if you simply turn up the volume knob, it gets louder.... but if you actually use the overdrive knob, it can sound louder and more clear but you can then turn down the volume knob effectively clearing up some audible area. The thing is, when you properly filter and then overdrive a bassline, it ends up being very clean and powerful sounding, while keeping the other frequencies wide open.
Another thing about basslines is that sometimes you want less to be heard like for example when a significant sample plays or when a certain drum hits. This is where normally side chaining would come in but here we are on the electribes so we gotta do it manually via motion sequencing... practice grooving the filter knob with the mix... develop a way of "dancing" and "breathing" the bassline with the whole track. Give it a flow, and capture it with a motion sequence. Now even tho you have places where it is potentially louder, vise versa you open up areas where there is more room for other synths to fill in... so for example, if you have a low cut section in the bass line riff, stick a synth note there, or even record a motion sequence on the other synth parts to reflect the opposite of what the bass line is doing.
example: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=622210&songID=6536494
(notice how the synth cuts in as the bass cuts out).
On the emx, try to keep the overdrive knob turned up about 1/3 of the way up... if you have nice smooth tubes on your machine, you can go higher, but 1/3 is sort of a point on the tribes where the overdriven sound starts to lose definition and power and starts to create too much distortion which kicks it into other undesired frequencies for bass.
Synth parts:
Always filter out anything you don't want heard. This might be a bold statement but it is very useful to cut just about any other synth part then the bassline with the bpf filter effectively to keep the extra ugly artifacts at bay. The more minimalistic each sound is, the more clear the overall sound is. Also the more detail you put into motion sequences, the more your mix will breather and be organic and dynamic, and when all parts are minimal and clear, those little details all can be heard.
Here's an example of one of my songs... begining is dull and static, then I start turning on motion sequences, bringing in other parts, and turning o n their motion sequences.
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=622210&songID=6536524
Things to watch out for: Like in drums, be careful with effects. A lot of times an overdriven part will glitch out when using reverb... to avoid it try removing the overdrive and increasing the volume, if tha'ts not enough, set modulation destination to amp, depth up all the way and speed up all the way. Remember if you want to modulate the filter, you can always motion sequence it. The same concept goes for the talk filter.
I can't make it clear how important motion sequences are. It is the most important and useful feature of the electribes and I'm sad to see so little people using it. Why modulate a filter with the modulation section and look for something that somewhat fits your beat when you can literally dance or grove with the filter where the part becomes one with the beat.
Why keep a bass line a static saw wave when you can morph it into a saw wave when the beat hits or whenever you want to?
If you don't use motion sequences, now is a good time to start. You won't regret it.
That's all folks, thanks for reading. I hope to produce more tips and tricks as well as other tutorials for the electribes. Hope someone finds it useful
Happy tribing. _________________
http://myspace.com/audioruso |
|
Back to top |
|
|
reddone Senior Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2007 Posts: 425 Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
|
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 12:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
good stuff , although i disagree with the accent bit to a certain degree. I use varying accents all the time on both synth and drums and dont find anything much these days that bothers me since getting good tubes .
ive really been making good use of the accents lately , accenting is a key feature in getting the music "happening" .. thru playing drums i know how important accenting is , but its only now that i realize how it is also in synth .
panning and accenting free up space in the mix periodically when u need something else to come thru .
duck'n'dive , bob'n'weave .. u know what i mean .
the rest of your post is sound advice tho , and im sure alot of the newbies will make good use of this info rather than REPEAT the same questions in various postings lol |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Ruso Platinum Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2007 Posts: 984 Location: Sammamish, WA
|
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 2:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
I guess you're right too... but the problem is most people don't use the accent part properly... which is kind of what I was saying. If by default all parts are accented then everything is clipped... but if you use it for one part or several parts that need it then yes, it is useful and it is not bad practice to do that. _________________
http://myspace.com/audioruso |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Borg Junior Member
Joined: 24 Apr 2008 Posts: 77 Location: Sweden
|
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 8:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
Cred for writing this stuff. I'm learning great things and realise that I should put down some more work in my tracks.
But...
Ruso wrote: | (use the drums to create the rhythm, not the delays from drums) |
Why not? Can't the delays be a cool effect for making a groovy beat? Didn't you just do that in the first sound example with the bpm sync delay?
Again, thanks for your tips! Can't wait to go home and play. _________________ Ain't got no monkeys in my family.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Ruso Platinum Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2007 Posts: 984 Location: Sammamish, WA
|
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 2:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about delaying the kicks to create double kick effects so on... even what I did I try to stay away from. It creates too much extra noise and too many digital artifacts from the delays. _________________
http://myspace.com/audioruso |
|
Back to top |
|
|
paul_courville Full Member
Joined: 29 Jan 2007 Posts: 189 Location: Tijuana, Mexico (Party Town USA!)
|
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:19 pm Post subject: Re: [TIPS AND TRICKS] Clean and powerful music on the electr |
|
|
Ruso,
If you think you're so damn smart why don't you start your own Electribe Forum!
What? You have? Oh, well good luck with that. he he
Seriously, best of luck.
I know you'll do a great job and help a lot of people.
http://electribe-forum.com/
My name is Paul Courville and I approve this message! _________________ "Secret to Electribes: push all the buttons, turn all the knobs, record what sounds good!" |
|
Back to top |
|
|
cosmosis
Joined: 13 Aug 2008 Posts: 2
|
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 2:12 pm Post subject: new tubes |
|
|
I read Ruso's excellent piece on using the electribes to better use - I just wondered what sort of valves make for a good replacement as a guitar friend says that valves have very different qualities/characteristics depending on what your use is ?? so what valves are going to help the drum n'bass end of things??
thanks for any light that can be shone Alan |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Ruso Platinum Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2007 Posts: 984 Location: Sammamish, WA
|
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 2:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
it depends on what kind of sound you want. First of all tubes act totally different to a guitar then to the electribes. I've personally noticed that shorter tubes(the metal grill/plate is about half the size of the tube) produce rougher dirtier distortion. Long ones(where the plate is almost as tall as the whole tube) produce very smooth sound and bring out a lot more of the electribe's harmonics.
On t hat not my personal favourite is the JJ EC803 S Gold Pin
https://ssl.eurotubes.com/cart/index.php?page=view_products&category_id=2&sub_category_id=107
If you get those tubes get matched tubes. It's only a couple extra bucks but then you won't have any balance issues. _________________
http://myspace.com/audioruso |
|
Back to top |
|
|
cosmosis
Joined: 13 Aug 2008 Posts: 2
|
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks to Ruso - you are full of good info - and like all the tips you give plus I checked out some of your sounds and philosophy on music making - all good man
I emailed the guy in eurotubes and discussed my tonal zone - so I go for one off gold plated pins jj' tubes - mmmh sound nice already
if you or anyone on the forum has any tips on layering kicks snares etc on the ESX would apprecite
great forum but what about a world electribe day
peace Alan |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Milhouse
Joined: 24 May 2008 Posts: 26
|
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 11:19 pm Post subject: Re: [TIPS AND TRICKS] Clean and powerful music on the electr |
|
|
paul_courville wrote: | Ruso,
If you think you're so damn smart why don't you start your own Electribe Forum! |
Speaking of your Electribe forum. I registered, but never got a email to activate my account _________________ ESX-1
Ensoniq ASR-X Pro
Yamaha TG-33
Juno 106 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Ruso Platinum Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2007 Posts: 984 Location: Sammamish, WA
|
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 2:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
activated manually... welcome aboard.
Some email clients block all emails from electribe-forum I'm not sure why but I have a feeling it;'s because of my cheap host and the whole ip range gets blocked that my site resides on. That or the server's shared with a site that likes to spam so in turn ef is blocked. Those bastards!!! _________________
http://myspace.com/audioruso |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Milhouse
Joined: 24 May 2008 Posts: 26
|
Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Ruso wrote: | activated manually... welcome aboard.
Some email clients block all emails from electribe-forum I'm not sure why but I have a feeling it;'s because of my cheap host and the whole ip range gets blocked that my site resides on. That or the server's shared with a site that likes to spam so in turn ef is blocked. Those bastards!!! |
aaaah ok, I just checked my spam filter and there was the activation email. Thanks for telling me that! _________________ ESX-1
Ensoniq ASR-X Pro
Yamaha TG-33
Juno 106 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
gil videla Senior Member
Joined: 17 Sep 2008 Posts: 356
|
Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 11:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
funny thing about the accent
On the EMX I've grown so accustomed to that f*ck*r being on for all 16 steps that I've never even played with it - ever.
Whereas on all my other tribes, *especially* my ER-1, I use the Accent in every pattern.
I think I will definitely turm the Accent off, and use it like a ducking type thing or something. It's there, I should be using it, as I know how
I just wish it wasn't by defualt turned on....
lame |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Dj Pound Senior Member
Joined: 13 Jan 2009 Posts: 281 Location: The Lab
|
Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
"The talk filter also has a lot of ugly artifacts like uncontrollable volume fluctuations where once in a while you will hear a huge spike in its sound which seems to happen almost on random"
not really sure, but are you talking about the low pass filter on the bottom left hand side of the ESX on the front panel? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
killedaway Full Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2008 Posts: 144
|
Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
Dj Pound wrote: | not really sure, but are you talking about the low pass filter on the bottom left hand side of the ESX on the front panel? |
i think he's referring to the "Talking Mod", found in the Effects section. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|