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maelstrom191 · Joined: 14 Sep 2007 Posts: 8 Location: sandy eggo

I've been somewhat hesitant to post this thread for fear of verbal bashings of "noob" and the like.
but after spending an hour or so on the search function, to no avail. I feel it is time to ask my question.

I have two songs that I programmed in MIDI and then ran through my triton extreme, then directly back in to the computer.
One of which I decided to take a crack at mixing.
Which actually didn't turn out too bad. I got the things I wanted to some out a bit more, everything sounds clearer, more distinguishable, and more lifelike. However my problem lies in that the unmixed(dry) recording of the song is actually louder and has alot more bass.
below is a link to each of this song, mixed and dry(unmixed).

http://www.soundclick.com/tacos

sorry all I have is soundclick to show these you.

Detailed Analysis:
the project is split up into 12 tracks which are:

Harp
Piano
5 pizzicato tracks(of all different timbres) which are:
viola pizz
violin pizz
cello pizz
bass pizz
and ensemble pizz
then I have
two slow attack digital strings tracks for backing and bass
two violin tracks for lead melody
and finally
bells

Since this was my first time mixing, I really wasn't sure where to start, but I knew of a vst plugin to use which I know to be fairly decent.
I used Izotope Ozone 3 for all my mixing.
The steps I took in mixing these tracks were:

First, I equalized everything till I brought out what I though the track needed. note: I never went into the negative dBs.

second, I added reverb to everything, as with everything I did on here, I tried not to go too overboard and just added as much as I felt neccesary to give the tracks a more life-like feel.

third, I used the loudness maximizer on tracks I felt turned out too quiet, or I decreased the gain margin to bring volumes of others down a bit.

fourth, I used a multiband harmonic exciter to bring out certain details of each track i.e. the rosin scrape from a stringed instrument.

fifth, I used a multiband dynamics function, which as I understand it, is some form of compressor, so I just tweaked it till it felt tighter and more brilliant.

lastly, I used a multiband stereo imager to add wideness to all the tracks. which I felt made everything sound bigger, like it should.

any input on what I did wrong or right would be greatly appreciated.
The main reason I posted this is to find out what a good way to start the mixing/master process would be. I would VERY much appreciate any help offered and I truly hope you enjoy the tracks.

furthermore, if you would like to try and mix them yourself I'd be happy to send all the individual dry tracks to see what kind of magic you guys can muster.

please help
Zac

JonSolo · Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 3:58 am Post subject:

I am not exactly sure what you are looking for, but I can offer some thoughts on your mixes and some suggestions that you may find beneficial.

1. Caution with your EQ. Equalization is to be used sparingly. Many sounds are sampled and have been EQed to fit where they should. If you feel a sound is taking away from another sound, analyze the second sound to find where in the spectrum it is strongest, and then EQ back the first sound in that range...but only in -1db steps at a time max. This is where much of your thinness is coming from.

2. Reverb should be last on the list in this type of music. Make sure it is one of the last effects you place on a sound. I would never put reverb on bassier sounds as it has little effect except adding mud.

3. No use for a loudness maximizer on individual tracks. If you follow the above, and you mix the sounds, don't waste your precious computing power on this. This effect is best for the overall track.

4. Again, use harmonic exciters with caution like EQ. Make sure this is an insert effect so that it does not interfere with the EQ. This should be a step before the track passes through final EQ. And a little bit goes a long ways.

5. Multiband dynamics can be good on individual tracks that need it. This is really the effect you should use to pull out rosin scrapes. But I find this effect is best used in mastering the final mix of a song to highlight missing or weak EQ points.

6. Stereo imaging thins a sound way out and can actually pull a track out of phase. It is best to pan your tracks where you want them and use your EQ and dynamics to fake the wideness. If you decide to actually use this effect, again, sparingly IS the key.

But you would know all of this if you weren't a n00b. Laughing

Sam CA · Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:49 pm Post subject: Re: mixing/mastering starters....

maelstrom191 · Joined: 14 Sep 2007 Posts: 8 Location: sandy eggo

first off,
thanks for the kind words bro. It means alot to me. i never think people like this s**t. myself and my buddies love it. Okay, so, about the string sounds from the keyboard being muddy, I really just used them out of necessity, I have nothing else to run them through, if I had the money I would've bought Vienna Symphonic Gold, but it's simply too expensive and beyond my means. One day though...
I'll either have that, or maybe the library that hans zimmer is rumored to have. *knocks on wood*
interestingly enough however,
the pizzicatos sounded f*ck*ng terrible when I first used them, it wasn't until I covered all the ranges(viola, violin, cello, etc.) that it started to shape up.
and what's weird, is the strings sounded great until the playback of the initial recording.
anyways.... on to your question.
it was actually very simple.
all I did was notate all the music in a digital music program called Guitar Pro 5, which does essientially the same thing as sibelius or other notation programs.
from there I set the banks and presets in guitar pro and exported the tracks one by one as midi files,
then I opened Sonar 7 and started a midi track, after that I imported the exported midi file into that track and set the track's output to be sent from my sound card into my keyboard,
then I went back into Sonar and opened audio track,
after connecting my 1/4 outputs from my keyboard to a stereo input on my sound card,
I set the audio track's input to the sound card input.
armed for recording and went to town.
that's pretty much it.

oh yeah, i did not start the mixing process until the entire song was recorded.
let me know if you have anymore questions.
hope I helped.

-Zac

Sam CA · Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:59 am Post subject:

maelstrom191 · Joined: 14 Sep 2007 Posts: 8 Location: sandy eggo

that's cool dude.
it took me forever to figure out how to do it.
never heard of finale.
but yeah. you got it dude.
I use my TE as a module.
depending on which sound I want to use, I either record in program or combi.
but I had to f*ck with a few things on my board before it'd actually play them without going to the general midi sounds(which sound like CRAP)

all tracks imported from guitar pro were panned to center.
they were recorded in stereo, but I think only the backing strings tracks were panned, one left, one right.

Vim · Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:25 am Post subject:

I'd approach this differently.

divide the song into sections (arrangements0 and then select the key instrument in each section.

Decide on or visualise a height (EQ), depth (levels) and width (pan) image of the 'soundstage.' think of it in terms of : How are your instruments going to be positioned is the harp by the piano, are all the violins on the left ... naturally the violin pizz's and bowed lead melody violins should have the same pan position (because you do not expect the violinist to run over the stage when changing to pizz, stoccato, etc)

once you visualise where they are all going to be and how upfront each instrument is going to be your mix should basically become easier.

normally, i'd push up all faders and then pan the tracks until i get the 'raw width' that i want. then adjust levels to get the depth of the sounds ... is it coming from far (not so loud) or is the sound more upfront (louder). then adjust freqs so that the sounds do not clash.

sweeten with verbs and delays and choruses to effect
HTH
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V Narayan
Australia
ex Fiji
ex Marshall Islands

Lorenzo · Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:40 am Post subject:

in first there is no a right answer here because the results are always subjective and you can achieve them following many path... but...
ozone is a mastering plugin, you shouldn't use it for each track. So first try to understand the difference between mixing and mastering then find the way you prefer to work... anyway, if you run so many istances of ozone... what kind of CPU are you using!?!? Shocked

regards, Lorenzo
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http://www.synthaddicted.com

Diego · Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:43 am Post subject:

I agree about the usage of Ozone as a mastering plugin.
BTW, you can use just some of its modules for every instance, make it behaving like a common mixing plugin.
Of course, it gives its best on the master bus Wink

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