Korg Forums

[tpantano]

Hello,
My dad is a keyboardist. I am a bassist/guitarist, but I've come to realize that the type of music I love (Owl City, Hellogoodbye, Daft Punk) is all made with electronics, and I also love electrical appliances (Built 3 PCs, won 2 IEEE programming awards) and software, so I decided that I'd like to get into playing keyboards.

I've been fooling around quite a bit with using a cheapo $100 Radioshack MIDI keyboard with some VSTi Softsynths. They're great, but obviously not as authentic sounding as an actual piece of hardware, and it would be near impossible to play live.

So, where should I start looking into keyboard hardware? I'm looking for something with very nice synthy sounds (akin to Owl City) that can be played live (for example, the ability to save prerecorded multi-track loops to the keyboard and then simply hit a button to play that rhythm loop and then live play a synth). My dad used a maxi-korg back in the day, but it is long gone and he is unsure of where modern tech is.

So, can you suggest a keyboard synth for preferably under $800 that is available? Also, if you could link me some high end equipment so I can see what there is to try and earn up to.

Thanks in advance!

[xmlguy]

To do multitrack looping, you should look at using Ableton Live with a hardware controller, such as the new Novation Launchpad:

http://www.ableton.com/launchpad

You're also going to need a lot more than $800 worth of gear to be able to reproduce those tracks. You'll need to spend that much for the vocal effects alone, such as with the TC Helicon Voice Live 2. Owl City is using lots of vocal effects, and of course that's what Daft Punk is known for. You'll need a talkbox like the Banshee II to do Daft Punk covers well. The synth is the least important aspect, since nearly any synth can do those sounds.

[tpantano]

Well, I'm not looking specifically for doing decent replications of Owl City, rather, a synth that can make similar sounds, along with a looper and possibly a vocoder (although I do not sing much).
_________________
Current: MS-20 Mini, Minilogue, SY77
Past: Korg R3, Volca Bass, X50, Mg Slim Phatty, Rld Gaia SH-01, Yamaha TX81Z
Have my freebie granular plug-in: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=192886

[xmlguy]

Any synth can do those sounds. There's nothing special about them. It's better to choose a synth based on your long term needs. The Radias is the best that Korg makes at the moment, with the R3 coming in a close second at a value price. For multitrack looping, full-song sequencing, and sampling, you'll need other gear besides these synths. That's where the Novation Launchpad or the APC40 come in to control Ableton Live, or NI Maschine for its own looping and sequencing.

[dayuri]

[tpantano]

Speaking of Softsynths, does anyone know of some good actual synth VSTis? I'm using cakewalk music creator because it was low cost, and the included synth presets are nice, although I'd prefer a virtual synth based off a real one.

Also, do you have any references I can look at to see how the different soundwaves work? I've heard that 'square' waves are what most synthpop songs use, but all my currently installed VSTis have are ones such as 'sine' waves and 'white noise'.
_________________
Current: MS-20 Mini, Minilogue, SY77
Past: Korg R3, Volca Bass, X50, Mg Slim Phatty, Rld Gaia SH-01, Yamaha TX81Z
Have my freebie granular plug-in: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=192886

[dayuri]

http://www.korg.com/Product.aspx?pd=444

This is just a set I quite liked. You might be able to pick it up with the MS-20 midi controller as well if you're lucky. Otherwise go to your local music store/internet/whattever and use your common sense.

[tpantano]

Which would be better to use; an analog synth, or a digital synth? I stopped by guitar center the other day; Almost every synth was digital with only attack, release, cutoff and resonance knobs for tweaking the sound.

Obviously, you'd probably have a much more tweakable sound with an analog synth but it would be much easier and quicker to switch between sounds with a digital.
_________________
Current: MS-20 Mini, Minilogue, SY77
Past: Korg R3, Volca Bass, X50, Mg Slim Phatty, Rld Gaia SH-01, Yamaha TX81Z
Have my freebie granular plug-in: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=192886

[X-Trade]

most modern analog synths you pay many thousands for...
IMO they are not worth it, unless you have that amount of money.

a digital synth can create the sounds just fine, usually with many more features, for a much lower price. take the Radias (or R3). it is an analog modeling synth. i.e. a digital synth that is designed to sound and behave a bit like an analog synth. Actually the Radias is a lot more than that, but that is the basic idea. it also has lots of knobs.

lots of other kinds of synths work the same. like the Nord Lead, Nord Wave, Access Virus, etc.. they are all digital analog-pretenders. nothing wrong with that. They usually have much more features, more stable control, and higher polyphony than an analog synth.

you can get old second hand real analog synths relatively cheaply at the moment, and they will have a nice character and usually very nice sounds, but usually be quite a pain to use, with no patch recall, etc...

modern analog synths as I mentioned cost a lot, have patch recall and in some examples such as the Dave Smith Prophet08, features that you don't even find on most modern digital analog modeling synths (such as the endless rotary knobs), but the polyphony is usually considerably lower. some like the minimoog and moog little phatty are only monophonic.


Then there is another kind of digital synth:
Sampling synths and rom-sample-based synths. such as the Korg TR, M50, M3, the Tritons, Yamaha Motif, Roland Juno-D and G and Stage, etc.
they aren't like the analog modeling synths which literally generate raw waveforms out of mathematical equations and tables of data, but are based on recordings of other instruments. They are the kind of synth that have pianos and basses and strings and sitars and every instrument under the sun, normally. Workstations, Romplers, Samplers...
they have filters and LFOs and envelopes and other features similar to an analog or analog-like synth, but it is the initial wave generation that is different.
also, the line is blurred, for example the Radias is considered a Virtual Analog but it does have some string, EP, organ, and drum samples built in, as well as digital waveforms. The nord wave can take user samples too.
you can also usually run other sounds through many VA synths in order to process them with the built in effects and filters.

if you are looking for strictly synth-type or otherworldly sounds, I suggest you go for a VA. the Radias or R3 is a great choice.
if you are looking for something that you can create entire songs on and have access to a vast array of different - real and synthy sounds, I suggest you go for a sampling or rompler workstation. the M3 or M50 is a great choice.

the synths you mention with only four knobs - they are usually assignable so they don't have to be cutoff and resonance, for example. on many newer synths you can set it up so that the knobs do a different thing for each sound/program. Like on the tritons and the new M3 and M50. on the R3 too you can set what each knob does for each program (and it even has LCD displays above them to tell you what they do!)
_________________
Current Gear: Kronos 61, RADIAS-R, Volca Bass, ESX-1, microKorg, MS2000B, R3, Kaossilator Pro +, MiniKP, AX3000B, nanoKontrol, nanoPad MK II,
Other Mfgrs: Moog Sub37, Roland Boutique JX03, Novation MiniNova, Akai APC40, MOTU MIDI TimePiece 2, ART Pro VLA, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40.
Past Gear: Korg Karma, TR61, Poly800, EA-1, ER-1, ES-1, Kawai K1, Novation ReMote37SL, Boss GT-6B
Software: NI Komplete 10 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, Ableton Live 9. Apple OSX El Capitan on 15" MacBook Pro

[RiotNrrd]

I went from hardware synths to virtual five or six years ago, and never looked back.

I own a Triton Classic, Karma, and a Yamaha SY-77. I moved houses over two years ago, and still haven't unpacked any of them.

I use Reason 4 most of the time, although I'm really getting into NI Komplete 6 coupled with Reaper at the moment.

There are incredibly good VST's out there - many (actually, most) of them free. Remembering the rule that "80% of everything is crap", you just need to find the good 20%. But they are out there if you just look around and read some reviews. Once you really get going, you're main problem is going to be having TOO MANY synthesizers.

Some people may claim that hardware synths are better than software. That might have even been true a while ago. But computers today are lots better than they were, and I believe that the gap has been closed at this point. Don't write off software.

[dreamaiden]

You could consider a couple of options...

You could get the Korg M50 and then add one of the Native Instrument packages. Kontakt has a lot in it, and Komplete has tons more. You could get an M50 for about $875 on ebay, Kontakt for about $400 and Komplete for about $600. This would give you a decent midi controller (M50) and you could also use it to play live. Adding the NI soft synths would give you a lot more sounds and possibilities. You could also then have the best of both worlds to explore and see where you really want to go. By the time Korg comes out with the next keyboard you can upgrade to that if you want to. You will want to be sure you have the computer requirements to support NI soft synths. You can find the specs on the NI site.

You could also come very close to getting everything you need with just the M3 but you will pay about $1500 or more on ebay. Adding the Radias board gives you the virtual analog. I believe the sound engine is the same in the M3 as in the M50 and I have not heard any complaints about the M50 so I can't really speak about the differences. It is true that playing live with a Korg will likely be easier for you initially than dealing with soft synths although people do it. This would be a good way to go for playing live.

Either way, I think a Korg is a good way to go for you and would cover a lot of ground including good keys and a controller. You could also get one of the earlier models of Korg as X-Trade mentioned. The M3 and M50 have an editor that opens on your computer like a plug-in. That is nice I hear.

So getting a Korg for playing live and for use as a midi controller, and adding soft synths as you go (and have the computer power to support it) would give you a lot to play with.

For recording at home you will need a DAW, such as Cubase or Live, an audio/midi interface and some cables. You won't want to go too cheap on those as it directly affects your sound. $1000 or less would do the job. Live will do the looping. I'm not sure if you can get the looping just with the Korg.

You can always add an analog or VA later but I do not think you need that in the near future.

Good luck !

[tpantano]

Is there a name for the feature of a keyboard where it will automatically generate rhythms for you?

For example, looking at the M50, you can assign chords to buttons, then choose a rhythm type for the genre of music you're playing, and it will automatically create a complementing rhythm to the music you're playing.
_________________
Current: MS-20 Mini, Minilogue, SY77
Past: Korg R3, Volca Bass, X50, Mg Slim Phatty, Rld Gaia SH-01, Yamaha TX81Z
Have my freebie granular plug-in: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=192886