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Joidi
Joined: 08 Feb 2010
Posts: 5
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 Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:07 am Post subject: Electribe ESX-1 for hiphop production? |
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Hello Korg Forums 
Currently my plans is to add some hardware to my setup, and ESX-1 seems like a good candidate. As I told in the subject, im doing hiphop beats (sample based, Dj Premier&Pete Rock influenced), and was wondering could this be an ideal sampler for that kind of music. Heres couple of things I would like to know, so any help is appreciated:
- Mono. I´ve heard ESX does only mono sampling. This aint no issue, since as an Lo-Fi/analog/oldschool head I prefer mono over stereo anyways, but was wondering hows the process of turning stereo to mono with the ESX? Lets say If I hook up a turntable into the esx, I presume I can only hook one of the sides (L/R)? What will happen If I try put both? (Stupid question I know, but It would be nice to review both channels before choosing wich one to go with, so how do I do this?)
- Quantize. Have heard rumors that you cant turn the quantize off. Is this true? If It is, Ive also heard that theres a workarounds for moving your samples out of the stiff quantizing. ( Resampling empty gap before the samples etc..) Is this easy? This aint no big deal, since I always use quantize but it would be really nice to somehow shift some sounds little out of the robotic rhythm.
- Sampling, Slicing & Chopping. Yes, anyone who knows Premier´s or 9th wonder´s work know what im talking about. One of the main parts of my music is to slice & re-arrange samples in different ways for my beats. I would like to know how easy is the process of lets say taking three 10 second samples from an old record, chopping little pieces of those, and re-arranging them inside the ESX? Is editing samples start & end point easy? Do you get good results? ( I know theres no waveform edit but still). Another matter is that can you set samples to cut eachother off? Lets say I have a 4 second sample that I want to play only 2 seconds of, and want other sample to cut it before it ends. Is this possible?
For now I have no other questions. Feel free to help me out! Thank you!
- Joidi |
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tim from texas
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Joined: 19 Oct 2008
Posts: 228
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 4:54 am Post subject: |
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mono- you can sample in stereo or mono.. stereo files are twice as big.. you can have both cords running in.. no need to only plug one in..
quantize- there are several threads about this on this forum and all over the internet about this.. there are several ways to make it not so stiff one of which you mentioned... there are other ways.. resample the break. bump the bpm and use the pitch to stretch out the break.. it makes it sound weird or different.. you can also resample yourself playing live without using the sequencer..
the chop- its not an mpc so you may not like it for doing those "soul record" remixes like those guys and possibly boon doc.. you can do stuff like what youre asking but as far as i know those doods are on different machines with different work flows and processes.. the slice works and you can set slices to pads make a pattern of those pads then resample to free up the pads back down to one freeing up for more samples.. editing start and end points is actually easier than i once thought (tiny chunks, press shift for big chunks) but i still do "most" of the chop on the computer and load it in the esx wav organizer and then put it on the card.. i have yet to straight sample straight into the esx.. ive resampled internal sounds and remixed but usually load sounds.. i like it that way..
i make more hip hop styled stuff than techno based music.. its a great machine for that.. |
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Pastor-of-Muppets
Platinum Member
Joined: 06 Jan 2010
Posts: 774
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:44 am Post subject: |
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| Joidi wrote: |
- Sampling, Slicing & Chopping. Yes, anyone who knows Premier´s or 9th wonder´s work know what im talking about. One of the main parts of my music is to slice & re-arrange samples in different ways for my beats. I would like to know how easy is the process of lets say taking three 10 second samples from an old record, chopping little pieces of those, and re-arranging them inside the ESX? Is editing samples start & end point easy? Do you get good results? ( I know theres no waveform edit but still). |
As tim from texas said, it's not as easy as an MPC, but it's definitely possible. You can use the timeslice feature to create a sliced sample, but don't assign it to the slice part. When you assign the sliced sample to a normal drum part you can choose to play the entire sample or an individual slice, so assign the sliced sample to several parts and choose a different slice on each. You have to do the assignment manually, unlike an MPC which can automatically assign a chopped sample to the pads. Once you've assigned the hits you want to the drum parts you can sequence them in any order.
Another way is to sequence the whole sample and adjust the start position individually for each event - see http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=34709
Setting start and end points isn't hard.
| Joidi wrote: | Another matter is that can you set samples to cut eachother off? Lets say I have a 4 second sample that I want to play only 2 seconds of, and want other sample to cut it before it ends. Is this possible?
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There are sample banks that work as a grouped pair and only one of the pair can play at once, so they cut each other off. Just assign the samples to the those parts and you're sorted |
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Pastor-of-Muppets
Platinum Member
Joined: 06 Jan 2010
Posts: 774
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:52 am Post subject: |
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P.S. ... just get one, you won't regret it - I ****ing love my ESX 
I have an mpc1000 too, and am still learning how to use both, but so far I've got more instant gratification from the electribe. The mpc1000 might be more powerful and have more features if you put the time into mastering it, but it's also a lot more expensive.
Finally, the ESX has more flashing lights  |
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FranzK
Full Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 140
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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Hip Hop tends to be very MPC centric
but there is no reason why you can't make hip hop (or ANY style) on an Electribe
I've done it, used to jam weekly with a freestyle rapper
I don't know MPCs that well, but I'd rather have an electribe!
Also, consider the new MicroSampler keyboard for a very "Sample Choppy" experience.
Go and play with em all at a store to decide!
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tim from texas
Full Member
Joined: 19 Oct 2008
Posts: 228
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| Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:53 am Post subject: |
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| man i hate that... hop on a forum ask some questions and bounce.. |
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Joidi
Joined: 08 Feb 2010
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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| tim from texas wrote: | | man i hate that... hop on a forum ask some questions and bounce.. |
Sorry Tim,
actually I did the same thing on the Roland SP forums, asked a question (which you respectfully answered) and bounced off for a while.
Im more of a "reader" type of dude, and I also read this soon after you guys helped me!
Thanks |
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tim from texas
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Joined: 19 Oct 2008
Posts: 228
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| Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 6:31 am Post subject: |
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| sorry i dont mean to come off as a hater at all... its just that really bothers me for some reason.. i think a lot of people avoid answering questions to people with low post counts for that very reason... i think thats why i answered your question on sp forums and on here... i like helping out new cats (even though im basically one myself) but i am also a firm believer in giving back what you take in... did you end up getting the esx or no? what did you end up getting? |
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Joidi
Joined: 08 Feb 2010
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 9:25 am Post subject: |
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^---
Nah, I didnt get the ESX atleast yet , but then again by doing some research on other Korg products, theres a lot of intresting pieces of gear I can choose from. Since im a synth person too, Im considering of getting either Microkorg XL or Kaossilator Pro (even though thats not so much of a synth). |
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X-Trade
Moderator
Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 6494
Location: Leeds, UK
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| Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 11:13 am Post subject: |
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| Joidi wrote: | ^---
Nah, I didnt get the ESX atleast yet , but then again by doing some research on other Korg products, theres a lot of intresting pieces of gear I can choose from. Since im a synth person too, Im considering of getting either Microkorg XL or Kaossilator Pro (even though thats not so much of a synth). |
If you're really a 'synth person', you'd get the R3 rather than the XL, for only a little bit more cash, you get a lot more - a complete effects palette, two insert effects per timbre rather than shared, a few more knobs... etc, there are other advantages too but I have a Radias so I don't really bother to know all the differences. anyway, it is a significatnly better machine unless you specifically want something that small and battery powered.
as for the mono vs stereo sampling on the ESX, I believe you got confused with monoaural and monophonic.
you can sample in stereo, using up two parts, however the entire electribe series is monophonic, meaning you can only play and sequence one note at a time per part.
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Current Gear: Kronos 61, RADIAS-R, Volca Bass, ESX-1, microKorg, MS2000B, R3, Kaossilator Pro +, MiniKP, AX3000B, nanoKontrol, nanoPad MK II,
Other Mfgrs: Moog Sub37, Roland Boutique JX03, Novation MiniNova, Akai APC40, MOTU MIDI TimePiece 2, ART Pro VLA, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40.
Past Gear: Korg Karma, TR61, Poly800, EA-1, ER-1, ES-1, Kawai K1, Novation ReMote37SL, Boss GT-6B
Software: NI Komplete 10 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, Ableton Live 9. Apple OSX El Capitan on 15" MacBook Pro |
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Dj Pound
Senior Member
Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 281
Location: The Lab
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| Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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Actually the ESX is more than 'enough' for whats required to do your typical hiphop production with. I have the MPC 2k and have toyed around a bit with the 1000 and the 500. And I have to say that the ESX allows for way more experimentation with the actual sounds (sound design) and its a beat makers dream come true as far as sound manipulation as well.
Get one! You wont be dissapointed.
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mudlogger
Joined: 27 Mar 2010
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 4:47 am Post subject: |
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i have an MPC1000, 2000XL, ESX-1 and an SP404
Everything your describing you want to do you can do on an MPC very very easily - its the hip hop machine. Sounds to me you want a reason not to get an MPC. The MPC is built for sampling,slicing and playing chops. The MPC sequencer is rock solid. Its deeper - more pro.
You can do all these things on an ESX but there is always a workaround/limitations (sometimes in a good way) - the workflow is different - its more step sequencer driven. I find it more instantly gratifying, simpler and more hands on - but i would say its not a hip hop machine in the traditional sense. But.......Dilla used an ESX.
Isn't it hop hop to make hip hop and a machine that most people make techno on! If so get the ESX. But really - the ideal sampler for DJ Premier / Pete Rock influenced stuff is without doubt an MPC.
Of all the machines - i actually like the sampled crunchy sound of the 2000XL and effects of the SP404 - those 2 together are probably my ideal combo - old but gold. |
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Dj Pound
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Posts: 281
Location: The Lab
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| Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 5:53 am Post subject: |
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| mudlogger wrote: | i have an MPC1000, 2000XL, ESX-1 and an SP404
Everything your describing you want to do you can do on an MPC very very easily - its the hip hop machine. Sounds to me you want a reason not to get an MPC. The MPC is built for sampling,slicing and playing chops. The MPC sequencer is rock solid. Its deeper - more pro.
You can do all these things on an ESX but there is always a workaround/limitations (sometimes in a good way) - the workflow is different - its more step sequencer driven. I find it more instantly gratifying, simpler and more hands on - but i would say its not a hip hop machine in the traditional sense. But.......Dilla used an ESX.
Isn't it hop hop to make hip hop and a machine that most people make techno on! If so get the ESX. But really - the ideal sampler for DJ Premier / Pete Rock influenced stuff is without doubt an MPC.
Of all the machines - i actually like the sampled crunchy sound of the 2000XL and effects of the SP404 - those 2 together are probably my ideal combo - old but gold. |
Hmm I dont know about that. I mean the ESX has full blown automation (motion sequencing) capabilities. In this way the sequencer on the ESX is vastly superior. You can perform and record real time changes a dozen different ways, not to mention all the cool modulation (LFO) possibilities and the built in keyboard section (with portamento and 4 different filters to choose from, all fully automated). The effects matrix and sound possibilities are also incredible and fully featured. The effects card on the MPC 2k alone costs atleast 300 dollars and is not included at all, and even with the card installed on your 2k the effects can not be 'automated' and played back as on the ESX.
........You would have a hell of a time just trying to do something as simple as a basic 'filter sweep'on any of the MPC's, especially the 2k, forget about doing complicated BPM synced LFO algorithms, things like this are virtually impossible on any of the MPC's (with the exception of the 4000 or 5000, but still not as extensive as the ESX). I honestly dont think the MPC's are half as intuitive as the ESX, you get plenty of knobs, buttons and sliders to tweak on the ESX, while on the MPC you just get some pads and a few sliders.
Just my opinion though. Im a 'knob tweaker' so I prefer the ESX.
*Also if 'chops' are what you want to do. The ESX's 'time slicer' can slice and dice sounds into a dozen different pieces, in a dozen different ways..Its really one of my favorite features, as well as the killer resampling capabilities.
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mudlogger
Joined: 27 Mar 2010
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | You can perform and record real time changes a dozen different ways, not to mention all the cool modulation (LFO) possibilities and the built in keyboard section (with portamento and 4 different filters to choose from, all fully automated). The effects matrix and sound possibilities are also incredible and fully featured. The effects card on the MPC 2k alone costs atleast 300 dollars and is not included at all, and even with the card installed on your 2k the effects can not be 'automated' and played back as on the ESX.
........You would have a hell of a time just trying to do something as simple as a basic 'filter sweep'on any of the MPC's, especially the 2k, forget about doing complicated BPM synced LFO algorithms, things like this are virtually impossible on any of the MPC's (with the exception of the 4000 or 5000, but still not as extensive as the ESX). I honestly dont think the MPC's are half as intuitive as the ESX, you get plenty of knobs, buttons and sliders to tweak on the ESX, while on the MPC you just get some pads and a few sliders. |
Agreed - but thats on a 2000XL - 10 years ago....
MPC1000 with JJOS-2 can do all of the above. The effects are now included and yes they can be very much automated. You can assign the sliders to control - pitch ,filter sweeps, LFO. You can stick a 120 gig hard drive in, load up whole chromatically assigned instruments, stereo non destructive visual chopping, velocity/sample layering, 62 stereo audio tracks, 32 voice polyphony. Its a more pro machine and features wise outstrips the SX.
http://stansteez.com/files/pdf/JJOS_Comparison.pdf
The MPC's are built around chopping and playing chops. The SX is built around step sequencing and hands on control with knobs and sliders. I'm not dissing either - i like both. The SX's killer feature is the motion control and ease of control / its more hands on + intuitive - but limited by the sample assignment arrangement, limited polyphony and editing functions - 2 keyboards parts, 2 stretched parts? If you using stereo samples - it takes 2 slots up - 12 voice polypony leads to note stealing - not a big problem but you have to work around it with mono samples and resampling.
The MPC's has less knobs and sliders, all the features are buried in menus, with a much steeper learning curve than the ES1 for sure.
I don't really want to get into a MPC vs SX debate. At the end of the day Its not about the machines - its about the tunes you make with them. You can make hip hop on both machines. But look what Joidi is asking - sample based hip hop beats based on DJ Premier & Pete Rock - if you youtube them guys - they won't be using an SX-1. |
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Dj Pound
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Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 281
Location: The Lab
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| Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Agreed - but thats on a 2000XL - 10 years ago....
MPC1000 with JJOS-2 can do all of the above. The effects are now included and yes they can be very much automated. You can assign the sliders to control - pitch ,filter sweeps, LFO. You can stick a 120 gig hard drive in, load up whole chromatically assigned instruments, stereo non destructive visual chopping, velocity/sample layering, 62 stereo audio tracks, 32 voice polyphony. Its a more pro machine and features wise outstrips the SX. |
I'd have to disagree again. I don't believe on the 1000 that you can record 'smooth' automations, only 'trigger' algorithms. This is a huge pain in the ass when one is trying to do such things as a seamless filter sweep or complicated volume and pan fades and tweaks etc...I also don't believe the implementation of recordable automations (motion sequencing) is as advanced or fully implemented on the 1000 as on the ESX. On the ESX you can tweak and record every knob and button in the editing matrix up to 28 times independently over and over again, and than even more so (if desired) in 'song mode'. The fact that you can also step edit each individual automated tweak is a huge plus as well.
I'd have to say that all these features on the ESX allows for far more 'expression' in your sounds than you can achieve on any MPC. Again, just my honest opinion.
Also concerning polyphony. While the ESX is somewhat limited in this area, the resampling capabilities totally make up for this. The resampling capabilities are stellar and allow for endless musical possibilities. You can resample anything and everything that you do in various different modes. I don't believe you can do this as extensively with any MPC either, as the 'resampling' functions on those machines work almost in an entirely different way.
Not to say that I dont enjoy using MPC's, I just dont find the whole process as fun or as 'intuitive' as using any of the Tribes. And the lack of fully featured 'resampling' capabilities on the MPC's is part of the reason why, amongst other things.
But I agree with you...Both machines are kick ass in different ways (the big pads feel great to bang drums out on). And if Primo can still make some hot sh*t using an MPC-60 from 1991 with 20 seconds of sample time, than I think its safe to say that you can definitely make some pretty good tunes using an ESX with 4 minutes + of sampling time and some pretty bad ass Effects and sound manipulation possibilities straight out the box 
I kinda wish Pete would go back to using just an SP-1200 and an S-950!! But he still uses the 2k pretty well and his newer music sounds pretty good IMO. It's also kind of too bad that so many people fall for the whole "the MPC is only for hiphop" nonsense. IMO Akai really cut back on the quality of those machines when Roger Linn jumped ship and later when NUMARK bought them out. It seems like much of the MPC product line is still riding on the reputation of quality that Linn set forth on the first 2 MPC's (the 60 and the 3000).
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