Korg Forums

[GreenGestalt]

I'm planning to upgrade my keyboard and am very, VERY likely to go to KORG. Right now, I have a Yamaha PSR300 (ancient!) and a KORG Kaossilatior which I'm using for a project but won't go into that here.



A few years back I tried a red KORG KARMA at a local music store and was hooked. The problem now is that the red KARMA is retired and the M3 is the nearest KARMA new device... I could get the cheapest m3 new for $1900 ish or on Ebay... But it'll likely be a long while before I could do that. On the other hand I could part with $500-$600 for a Red KARMA on Ebay or at around the same price the M50. If I get enough in my tip jar (and can hold back in RL) I'll do the M3 but otherwise I'll get either device. I'm tempted by a Yamaha PSR E413 (the modern equivilant) for $300 at the stores, $200 online, but KORG's products seem to have a richer sound... Even wish I could get a "MicroKORG" for the Vocoder and Synth effects, but the small keyboard key size scares me, I dislike hitting two keys next to each other on a normal size keyboard...



Granted, almost anything (outside of the $149 department store keyboards) would probably be a vast improvement over mine, but it's a big purchase and I'm posting this asking for some advice.


So, just please give me your opinion:

Which would be the best purchase: The Red KORG KARMA -or- the KORG M50?


Now, my muzik is chiefly inspired by the "Prog" rock of when I was in tie-dyed diapers. Also there's some fascination for the techno and new age sounds. (I got the Yamaha at a used store for the "Crystal" synth) But I also have a soft spot for "Folk" sounds, including Irish/Celtic music. I really wish my keyboard's "Strings" sounds sounded like strumming on a guitar, not just maybe allegedly plucking one string...


I'm also enchanted by the "arpeggiator" sounds, from KARMA and from other devices. Even that latest YamahaPSR has them, but they are obviously more limited than KORG's, likely just a competition issue.


Incorporating a vocoder effect would be nice too...


So, again, please give me your opinions. Red KARMA or M50?
If one could get either about the same price, which one?

[Stephen]

That's a tough call for me.
I love my Karma, and doubt seriously that I would trade it for an M50, I have an M3, that doesn't get a lot of use, not like the Karma, or my TR.
My Karma is loaded, it has two expansion boards, and the MOSS option installed, so that's a big part of it's attraction, I love having lots of sounds at my disposal.
The M50 will have the more modern sounds, better media access, USB connectivity, and the arps are really good, but I'd have to go with the Karma.
I hope that helps.

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Stephen
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[karmathanever]

I apologise if this seems like a stupid reply as I have no experience with the M50. however just wanted to recommend that you try and get to someone with a Red Karma and give it a good workout. - I love my Karma - had it for a few years now and it still never fails to amaze me (it's that Kay guy !!! ).

The add on boards (I have studio essentials and classic keyboards) plus the great combi/program sets available form Korg (Chemistry 1-3, Reincarnation - I have 'em all) are just brilliant. This might be an older keyboard now with it's quaint little old-fashioned diskette drive but it will explode your mind - then there's Karma MW software if you really don't want to ever sleep again (again that Kay guy is to blame ).

The bottom line is that you can get this keyboard pretty cheaply now and it is still ahead of the rest in my opinion.

At least be assured that if you go for the Red Karma, you will not only get your money's worth but you will NEVER be disappointed.

Good luck

Pete
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PA4X-76, Karma, WaveDrum GE, Fantom 8 EX
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[Xenomorph]

I hate these threads that put me in the original posters place as if I need to decide.

I have both and couldn't live without either one. My m50 is seeing more use lately well because it's new and fresh for me but that's about the only reason. My Karma is loaded as Stephens is so that's more of an attraction.

I haven't come to grips with the Karma tech, not enough to make people oooohh and aaahhh, well not live anyways. I'm much more accustomed to manipulating Arps in the Korgs. That's my fault though and with so many workstations, time is limited. I've said it before in other threads and say it again here, the Drum track feature in the M50 is a HUGE +

Sorta off topic but I wish all Korgs were available in the Karma Red(burgundy beast/maroon monster, pick a name lol). Some hate it but I think it's the most appealing color for a keyboard. 2nd is the blue of the Extreme

Here's an idea...scrounge some extra $$ up and look for a barely used M50 for about 850.00, and an used but Mint Karma for $600'ish and for less than $1,500 you have an excellent combo


_________________
Life is short, play a KORG!

Current: Pa5X, Nautilus
Past: M1, X5D, N364, Karma, X50, TR61, M50, micro-Korg, Triton Extreme, Pa3x, Roland Fantom 06, Akai mpc key61

[bsr2002]

[quote="Xenomorph"]I hate these threads that put me in the original posters place as if I need to decide.

Here's an idea...scrounge some extra $$ up and look for a barely used M50 for about 850.00, and an used but Mint Karma for $600'ish and for less than $1,500 you have an excellent combo

[/quote]

I like this idea
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Live Rig: Roland Fantom X6, KORG TR61, Yamaha Motif ES6

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[GreenGestalt]

>>Sorta off topic but I wish all Korgs were available in the Karma Red(burgundy beast/maroon monster, pick a name lol). Some hate it but I think it's the most appealing color for a keyboard. 2nd is the blue of the Extreme


----Not really. I love the Red:-) Got me to touch it at the music store. The Red is what makes me want to choose KARMA. IF I get the M50 I'll be tempted to "Mod" it and take off the case and enamel it some other color, though I'd choose Green in that case, maybe layer a fractal green pattern or airbrush some RogerDean like effect. Not the KARMA, since it'd be defacing art to do it to it.

>>>Here's an idea...scrounge some extra $$ up and look for a barely used M50 for about 850.00, and an used but Mint Karma for $600'ish and for less than $1,500 you have an excellent combo


-----Actually, I've thought of two devices.
However, I'd still get one or the other, that's why I'm asking. If I got two devices, the other would be either a MicorKorgXL -or- a RADIAS. That way I'd have both a massive sample library with an arpeggio or KARMA function -and- a polyphonic "Syhthesizer" to custom tweak sounds.

Or, is it actually a good idea to have both? And both versus just then buying the M3 which goes for prices around that on Ebay? Some M3's even are sold with the "Radias" board attached already!



---------------Anyways, since you have both------------


1. How is the KARMA different from the M50s arpeggio function?

2. How many different instruments/effects does either come with? Well, I can look at the manuals, but I assume either has a lot. The times I've touched the KARMA and its successor the M3 it seemed I was spinning the dial forever before going full circle.

-Again I'm a Prog inspired guy with a thing for techno and some folk/celtic. So an eclectic mix of rich sounds with funny electronic sounds and a few well rendered "String instrument" sounds along with an abusable arpeggio symphony function is what I'm looking for;-) Tall order, but that's why I find it worth spending for such devices.

-As an illustrator/storyteller I'm trying to figure out which has the widest "Pallet" of paints and colors, which blends the best.

3. Can the m50's arpeggio be modified like the KARMA seems to be? I mean can you chain different instruments and modify their intensity/presence? I don't need the exact control, but some would be nice.

4. Does either KARMA or M50 have a "Vocoder" option where you plug in a mike and can modify voice?



----Anyways... My current Keyboard, an ancient Yamaha PSR-300, while it seems to give better sounds than the ones one the shelf at Target and other such stores, goes for $30-$100 on Ebay... So in either event my upgrade is going to be nuclear.


Also, since neither have internal speakers, what's a good way to rig up sound for them? Most AMPs in town for sale are for the Guitaur guys and expensive. I assume with either I can just use the USB port to my computer since I'm mostly home based and plant to inflict my stuff on the world through the net anyways and if I need to work offline/away just hook the "Headphones" jack up to a portable powered speaker unit, like a stereo? It's easier to find devices with "Mike inputs" since the Ipods and MP3 players got mainstream... (I used to open and modify them for people, Mike Jacks that went through the amps to the speakers way back)



Thanks for your time. I apologize for what must be a cliche "NOOB" line of questions and I thank you (and the others) for their input.

[Xenomorph]

I don't have much time to reply to all questions, busy day...

Karma tech is way beyond simple arpeggiators. I think anyone who has sat down at the Karma really liked it and ideas of songs went dancing thru their heads. The true test is actually manipulating the Karma to do what you want it to do and in that respect it's got a LOT more depth than the arps in the other boards, and along with depth comes frustration, cussing, yada yada

What I enjoyed more than anything is the MOSS board inside mine, the actual Karma tech inside took a back seat for the time being. Actually the entire Karma is tucked away inside a gig bag, the Extreme and M50 keep me very busy indeed.

*** As far as sound goes, do what ya gotta do and if you have the gear on hand, great.

At some point you may want to get a cheap mixer that offers stereo channels and get some cheap yet decent studio monitors. I read reviews and made a leap of faith and got the cheap Behringer Truth 2030A pair for around $300.00 and they sound great for the price. Others laugh at them but my ears and checking account like them so....

If you're going to run just 1 keyboard for the time being, you can run Left Out from the Korg directly to the left speaker and obviously same goes for the Right channel, bypassing the need for a mixer until funds allow anyways. The affordable behringer mixers come with USB goodies so you can connect to the pc. I paid $200.00 for mine but models with less channels can be had for a LOT less. I used to be a gear snob and spent ridiculous amounts of money on all the big brands but I realized that you reach a very obvious point of diminishing returns so I decided to get affordable sound reinforcement allowing me to get a ton of Korg synths to fiddle with

*** No Vocoder whatsoever in either one....

The M50 has a ton of Arps on hand and with the touch screen they can be changed very easily and quickly to anything you desire.

Like karmathanever said above, for the price they are used, it's an awesome value and it almost feels dirty buying them for so cheap and realizing how many months you're about to lose from playing with it.

If you like orchestras, get the PCM Orchestral Collection. There are a ton of downloads in the Karma section, you'll be fiddling for weeks and barely scratch the surface.

http://www.korgforums.com/?show=1

You are going to give yourself ulcers while making a decision. For half the price of a new M50, if you are patient, you can get a Karma in great if not Mint condition. I got lucky with the Karma and Extreme. In both cases, the sellers were told by their wives that they had to get rid of one in order to get another(the Extreme seller was buying an used Oasys, the Karma seller was buying an M3). I paid $650 for my Karma and that included the MOSS board(I think the guy forgot it was in there!) and the Classic Keys card. The MOSS board alone is fetching 500.00 seperate! What I should do is pop that bad boy into the Extreme..hmmm......

I am a firm believer in having atleast 2 boards, the more the merrier I say. You could skip the Karma, M50 and Radias idea and spring for an M3 that's got everything the M50 has along 2nd gen Karma inside, outpacing the original karma board. The possibilities are endless, welcome to the club
_________________
Life is short, play a KORG!

Current: Pa5X, Nautilus
Past: M1, X5D, N364, Karma, X50, TR61, M50, micro-Korg, Triton Extreme, Pa3x, Roland Fantom 06, Akai mpc key61

[bmstylee]

for my money get the karma. the m50 feels cheaply made. just not something i expected from korg. but really save your money and get an m3. it is a very good piece that has karma 2 on it and a whole slew of stuff that is to much to mention.
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tr88 and the red beast

[Gargamel314]

[gridsleep]

One more point: KARMA is now available for the M50, running as a module on the PC, giving the M50 all the sound of the M3/OASYS engines, and making it in a lot of ways superior to the KARMA Workstation, not the least of which is a two year warranty. I don't see the M50 as flimsy; it is light and managable. It's very nearly a laptop synth, by weight if not size. With KARMA I would be tempted to redub the M50 the new Orchestron.

[X-Trade]

I'd rather get the M3 if I could ever afford it. Then you've got the M50's sound AND the KARMA tech. Best of both worlds.

So I guess the KARMA + M50 is a good tradeoff, but I really get the impression that KARMA in the M3 is considerably easier to work with and more advanced.


I currently use KARMA + Radias as my main setup and that is a good combination.
Radias has a similar sound character to EDS with its almost infinite high end definition and modern sound potential. And then the KARMA has all that lower-quality almost 90s grungy sampler sound. Being of the triton line though, the pianos are awful!
But they complement eachother really well. I wish Kay had made KARMA for the Radias.
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Current Gear: Kronos 61, RADIAS-R, Volca Bass, ESX-1, microKorg, MS2000B, R3, Kaossilator Pro +, MiniKP, AX3000B, nanoKontrol, nanoPad MK II,
Other Mfgrs: Moog Sub37, Roland Boutique JX03, Novation MiniNova, Akai APC40, MOTU MIDI TimePiece 2, ART Pro VLA, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40.
Past Gear: Korg Karma, TR61, Poly800, EA-1, ER-1, ES-1, Kawai K1, Novation ReMote37SL, Boss GT-6B
Software: NI Komplete 10 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, Ableton Live 9. Apple OSX El Capitan on 15" MacBook Pro