Would be nice if Korg unlocked all expansions for Oasys

[SoulBe]

Hi Naviara and Charlie,

as I told before I´m no tech but when I understand correctly the processor of O should handle the Kronos OS and HDD should not be a problem ....

after thinking over I read again Jerry´s post on behalf discontinued production of OASYS:

I'm posting this on behalf of Korg Inc:

There have been a lot of inquiries and dialog regarding the status of the OASYS, and we would like to explain the OASYS current status and future. It is true that OASYS production has now finished. A number of distributors still have stock and so sales continue, but you will see this situation change across different markets as time goes by. We always knew we were creating a more limited-market product for a smaller group of discerning musicians (you!) and we are pleased to have been able to deliver you this elite music-making tool. You have a wonderful musical instrument with which to realize your personal expression, the finest we have ever developed.

We have recently released some system tweaks/bug fixes and have plans for some more ongoing sound support, like the new sounds we just released.

We constantly get ideas/suggestions/requests for more features for the OASYS, but we cannot promise that any of these can be delivered. The current world economic situation affects us all, and we have to adapt our plans and channel our resources to best navigate these uncertain waters. We are proud of the OASYS and all that we have achieved with it, and thank all of the users and owners who shared in our vision of this superlative keyboard.

As always, we will announce further support only when it becomes available.

this turned out to make me more angry.

I understand when they don´t build units because they won´t sell O´s.
I understand when they build newer products with a lower price for the mass market to earn money even when they incorporate the synth engines we had to pay for.
But I cannot accept and understand that if Kronos OS would be handled and could be overtaken to OASYS as it seems to be a kind of OS 2.0 and disc streaming is possible when Korg is not delivering an update to OASYS users. In this case I feel deeply ripped paying for the O and the expansions and listening to Korg´s statement that they are proud of OASYS and what they have achieved with it and that they would say thank you to us users who shared the dream ... hey we´are still sharing !!!!! Of course I know that there comes the time that due to processor etc developments the O will not be able to follow newer technology but as long as it´s hardware is sufficient ...

As I´m not expecting a statement from Korg about updating possibilities I don´t know if we ever can clear this point. Until now I thought Oasys processor and drive could´nt handle Kronos options.

At last as in Jerry´s statement told we will get information if/when further support is given ... maybe an update maybe we never get that magic email from korguser.net telling about updates ...

Regards
SoulBe

[Naviára]

Kro/asys?

LOL

Regarding Diskstreaming: I believe a conventional HD should be able to do this. And if not, well lets plug an external sdd into one of the 4 usbs. I doubt though there are HDs transferring 40 GB in a second. At least the one in my O seems MUCH slower. (or are you talking gigabits and not gigabytes? )

The most annoying thing is Korg's non-communication. Korg sticks to this policy even when they would have good news for us (I remember when they released hundreds of new sounds right after discontinuing the O; they wouldn't have given the tiniest hint that something nice is coming towards O useres - I mean, that's somebody really sticking to his policy )

LoL - yes you're right - 40GB/s would be very fast - Sorry, made a mistake here .. I mean 40MB/s

IDE HDD - 40-52 MB/s
IDE SSD - 70-80 MB/s
SATA SSD - 190 MB/s

The diskstreaming still don't need so much power

A 16 bit stereo sample recorded at 48 khz just need 192 KB/s
10 samples (or voices) - 1.92MB
100 samples (or voices) 19,2MB

The SG-X engine can use 100 voice max - and keep in mind that this voices will also drop drastic if you use other synthengines in addition.

Where is Diskstreaming on the Kronos applied to ?:

If you got the impression, that all the sampled Instruments on the Kronos use diskstreaming you are wrong. This engines use diskstreaming:

1. The Piano engine
2. The E-Piano engine
3. The new Drumsets

All the othes samples are stored and played back from RAM.

The Kronos using 2GB - a very small amount for the OS, a huge part for the ROM samples (it's the same like on Oasys), some preload for the 3 diskstreaming engines, so it's just 200MB left for own samples.

So is diskstreaming possible on the O???

YES!!!
A.

[OrientExpressMB]

Instead they had a vision. It's name was "OASYS" and aimed how to upset premium customers the most. Congratulations. You are right on target.

KORG & More? Ja & nie mehr.

Peter M. Mahr angry at Korg?!?!?!?!?!?
Then the game HAS changed!

Seriously, the people that bought Oasys, which was more than twice the amount of other workstations, the most ultra-hard core "fans" or serious people, supported Korg in this development.
They produced 3000 pieces and ALL were sold out (I presume)
We even paid afterwards, for new engines and Exs.

And as "Thanks for your support" we dont get told anything about the current situation!
Thats sour, bitter, saddening.....

Totally agree Hedegaard.

[Hedegaard]

What if Korg decided to provide a new motherboard with new Atom CPU, RAM e.t.c. and Korg made a Kronos OS that could be used inside the Oasys.
Replaced the HD with SSD.


What would be sacrificed:
1) We don't need the LED light on the physical synth to see whenever it is streaming, that can be sacrificed.
2)We can dump the extra 4 outputs on the rear of the Oasys
3)ADAT/DXB whatever thing thats also on the back of the Oasys

Then we all get our Oasys upgraded to Kronos.

I'd be willing to pay:
1-Authorized Korg service center for carrying out this procedure.
2-Software OS
3-All the necessary hardware, mainboard, RMA e.t.c.

Because seriously, the differences between Oasys and Kronos aren't the ADC/DACS, its only some of the hardware.

[Rocness]

What if Korg decided to provide a new motherboard with new Atom CPU, RAM e.t.c. and Korg made a Kronos OS that could be used inside the Oasys.
Replaced the HD with SSD.


What would be sacrificed:
1) We don't need the LED light on the physical synth to see whenever it is streaming, that can be sacrificed.
2)We can dump the extra 4 outputs on the rear of the Oasys
3)ADAT/DXB whatever thing thats also on the back of the Oasys

Then we all get our Oasys upgraded to Kronos.

I'd be willing to pay:
1-Authorized Korg service center for carrying out this procedure.
2-Software OS
3-All the necessary hardware, mainboard, RMA e.t.c.

Because seriously, the differences between Oasys and Kronos aren't the ADC/DACS, its only some of the hardware.

At this point I wouldn't change a thing with Oasys . All I would like is for Korg to update The Oasys the best that they can . I'm not 100% sure Kronos will have Oasys sound quality (it's the little things) , time will tell . I just think the fact that Oasys is compattable with Kronos but not the other way around is a slap in the face to every Oasys owner . It tells me that most of the thing Kronos got Oasys could have got too but they didn't want to do it IMHO because they want Oasys owners to run out and buy Kronos. The new EP-1 should have definitely been on Oasys without a doubt .

I'm not falling for it aging . Is Kronos great yes absolutely I want one but when the hype calms down and when the trumpets fade , how long before the new user start asking question that us experience korg user have been asking for years to be fixed . So Korg should get ready for questions like this:

Why when I build , my own combi's does the sound, sound thin and flat , I mean in program mode it sounds fine but in combi mode it's not the same why ? (Experienced Korg users already know what this is about ) I'm not going to get to deep into it but Oasys owners should not feel bad about kronos , Look at it like this the Oasys is like the original camaro and Kronos is like the new version .

[MartinHines]

But I cannot accept and understand that if Kronos OS would be handled and could be overtaken to OASYS as it seems to be a kind of OS 2.0 and disc streaming is possible when Korg is not delivering an update to OASYS users. In this case I feel deeply ripped paying for the O and the expansions and listening to Korg´s statement that they are proud of OASYS and what they have achieved with it and that they would say thank you to us users who shared the dream...

Regards
SoulBe

Then you don't understand how new product development works.

Korg's reuse of the OASYS software (OS, software) in a new product is nothing new; companies do this all the time, since it reduces the R&D investment. The OASYS itself re-used R&D from the original OASYS project and OASIS PCI projects.

However, spending money on new product development is based on an expected future financial return, i.e. Korg expects to sell enough Kronos keyboards to recoup the cost of Kronos development plus extra to support their return on the investment.

Korg OASYS development is over, just like development for many other keyboards is over. Korg isn't manufacturing any new OASYS keyboards, so any additional OASYS development would be a pure financial cost to Korg with no financial return.

Sure, it would be great if Korg decided to spend extra money to try to provide OASYS owners with some items from the Kronos (if anything could actually be supported) but I just don't see that happening.

What is wrong with Korg being proud of the OASYS? I am sure Korg is proud of the M1 and the Triton series also. All of these products are no longer manufactured either.

Sometimes companies have to make tough business decisions to stay in business.

I have owned a lot of Korg products, including the OASYS, and I don't feel "ripped off" at all. The OASYS is a great keyboard built with high quality hardware, but its development days are over. In the future the Kronos will suffer the same fate, surpassed by the next product.

[OrientExpressMB]

But I cannot accept and understand that if Kronos OS would be handled and could be overtaken to OASYS as it seems to be a kind of OS 2.0 and disc streaming is possible when Korg is not delivering an update to OASYS users. In this case I feel deeply ripped paying for the O and the expansions and listening to Korg´s statement that they are proud of OASYS and what they have achieved with it and that they would say thank you to us users who shared the dream...

Regards
SoulBe

Then you don't understand how new product development works.

Korg's reuse of the OASYS software (OS, software) in a new product is nothing new; companies do this all the time, since it reduces the R&D investment. The OASYS itself re-used R&D from the original OASYS project and OASIS PCI projects.

However, spending money on new product development is based on an expected future financial return, i.e. Korg expects to sell enough Kronos keyboards to recoup the cost of Kronos development plus extra to support their return on the investment.

Korg OASYS development is over, just like development for many other keyboards is over. Korg isn't manufacturing any new OASYS keyboards, so any additional OASYS development would be a pure financial cost to Korg with no financial return.

Sure, it would be great if Korg decided to spend extra money to try to provide OASYS owners with some items from the Kronos (if anything could actually be supported) but I just don't see that happening.

What is wrong with Korg being proud of the OASYS? I am sure Korg is proud of the M1 and the Triton series also. All of these products are no longer manufacturer either.

Sometimes companies have to make tough business decisions to stay in business.

I have owned a lot of Korg products, including the OASYS, and I don't feel "ripped off" at all. The OASYS is a great keyboard built with high quality hardware, but its development days are over. In the future the Kronos will suffer the same fate, surpassed by the next product.

You don't get a thing, that the Oasys is not 2000-3000$ instrument, well you know how much it costs. Come on, discontinuing a product like that after just 4 years it's a shame and we HAVE ripped off by that, I don't know why people defend Korg like you do, maybe you find the money under a tree, but me not like most of the other people here. So stop this useless statements, I'm fed with reading this kind of thing. We have been ripped off by Korg who had our trust and loyalty. Period.

[McHale]

You know, just because Korg discontinued it, doesn't mean you can't still use it. It still does everything it did when you purchased it. Now if features stopped working, you'd have a complaint. Otherwise no. Have you never bought a car before? Every year new models come out (sometimes with the same name) but you never hear car buyers complain that they got screwed by the car manufacturer because they released a faster, newer Mustang.

[vEddY]

You know, just because Korg discontinued it, doesn't mean you can't still use it. It still does everything it did when you purchased it. Now if features stopped working, you'd have a complaint. Otherwise no. Have you never bought a car before? Every year new models come out (sometimes with the same name) but you never hear car buyers complain that they got screwed by the car manufacturer because they released a faster, newer Mustang.

I really hate it when I have to interfere with this hate-vs-positive-fest, and it's gr8 to see people expressing their opinions but this has got to stop. Let's all agree to disagree and recap.

The problem/beef that quite a few (not all) OASYS buyers have with KORG can be extrapolated from the following sentence that was in KORG's OASYS PR and KORG's webpage:

"OASYS is not only an entirely new instrument, but a completely new platform to support Korg innovation for years to come. Powered by an ultra fast computer processor, and running newly-developed proprietary software atop Linux underpinnings, OASYS offers all the benefits of a variable software system, backed by a dedicated operating system and the hardware integrity that can only come from a fully-integrated instrument design. New synthesis methods for creating sound (EXi Expansion Instruments), new effects (EXf Expansion Effects), and additional ROM libraries (EXs Expansion Sample Libraries) can be added, ensuring that OASYS will remain the centerpiece of your musical world well into the future."

OASYS never made it to "well into the future" and definitely never became "a completely new platform to support KORG innovation for years to come". Unless you take a cynical stance and say that "by this sentence, they ment Kronos and all of the possible future spinoffs and who gives a cr*p about OASYS buyers, early adopters, losers".

People who are satisfied with the OASYS either bought it for what it is/was, or were happy with upgrades. Point taken.

Everything high and cool. Can we please stop this absolutely redundant discussion? It would really be better to focus on the future. And our music. Whining, bitchin' and moanin' won't do anything good for our music.

[t_tangent]

You know, just because Korg discontinued it, doesn't mean you can't still use it. It still does everything it did when you purchased it. Now if features stopped working, you'd have a complaint. Otherwise no. Have you never bought a car before? Every year new models come out (sometimes with the same name) but you never hear car buyers complain that they got screwed by the car manufacturer because they released a faster, newer Mustang.

Indeed that is true with one exception. I have never heard of a car that was designed and marketed specifically to be future proof and have an Open Architecture.

The point is that if the OASYS was a normal workstation keyboard then I don't think there would be discussions going on such as this, and certainly there wouldn't be the amount of disappointed OASYS owners and users that there are now.

But, the OASYS is not a normal workstation keyboard, and it was not designed and marketed as a normal workstation keyboard. It was designed and marketed to be a state of the art future proof Open Architecture workstation keyboard, and that was one of the reasons why OASYS owners paid such a hefty price for it. And while Korg did indeed provide several updates for the OASYS, OASYS users also had to pay for the additional Synth Engines such as Mod-7, LAC-1 STR-1 etc. So when Korg announced that they were discontinuing support very soon after providing a huge update to their other customer base of M3 users, OASYS users had their first blow.

And now with the introduction of Kronos this has reopened old wounds, as it basically shows that Korg did not in fact discontinue working on the core elements of what make up the OASYS project but rather they repackaged it into another synth while completely ignoring their existing and loyal customers.

Now while this may be a purely business oriented strategy, it has caused a huge amount of resentment and disappointment in the OASYS community and has already tarnished Korg's reputation in the eyes of several very long term and loyal customers. Even if Korg's strategy was not intended to sideline loyal OASYS customers, the point is that it has, and therefore Korg really do need to readdress this, and I only hope that they do something about this before too long. Still, time will tell.

[Naviára]

You know, just because Korg discontinued it, doesn't mean you can't still use it. It still does everything it did when you purchased it. Now if features stopped working, you'd have a complaint. Otherwise no. Have you never bought a car before? Every year new models come out (sometimes with the same name) but you never hear car buyers complain that they got screwed by the car manufacturer because they released a faster, newer Mustang.

You can't compare cars with software - you have to be on the same level... you bought a expensive computer a few years ago with Windows Vista and now Microsoft comes out with Windows 7 stopping security update support on Vista, also it runs much faster and with far better features, making your work much easier. What would you say if it would only be sold with a new computer hardware, would you really buy a entire new computer hardware, even if you know that your current hardware will work perfectly with Wndows 7 or would you just buy the Windows 7 software update?

we all agree that it's impossible to upgrade:
a M1 to Trinity
a Trinity to Triton
a Triton to Triton Extreme
a Triton Extreme to M3
a M50 to M3
why ? It's a closed hardware system. All the engines are using special DSP's, different board layout and software "burnt" on the hardware.

But with Oasys and Kronos we have a complete new situation (sorry if I repeat myself) - for the first time we have compatible and equal hardware performance and a simple software update could change a Oasys to a Kronos - Korg only has to work on an installer for the Oasys. This job usually could be done in a few days, if it isn't just hours. Like I said before.. they don't have to do it for free..

Korg is loosing real money here...

Korg could provide a upgrade on USB for 249$
Korg could also provide a prepared upgrade package on SSD for 399$
Korg service could charge for the SSD package plus installation 599$
If only 200 O owners buy the 249$ package, they could make almost 50.000$ just by providing an Installer..

If nearly all O owners get pissed by Korg now, what do you think, how many of them will buy a Kronos now?? Probably more O owners would buy a upgrade than buying a Kronos.. and Korg also could make money from the O owners who couldn't afford a Kronos at all (because they still have to pay for the O the next few years.. )

okay I will finally close now.. before I'm stuck in repeating...
all what's important I said the last days...
Korg, it's your turn...

greetings
A.

[McHale]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to call all OASYS users out as ingrates or idiots or jerks or anything. The OASYS is one of the greatest synths Korg has ever made. The KRONOS is just a repackaged OASYS. If I owned an OASYS, the KRONOS wouldn't really interest me. And to be quite honest, the OASYS looks pretty awesome with all the illuminated sliders and faders and what not. But I see your point about the "future proof" claim. I'm sure it's all about dollars and cents. It wasn't a huge seller and perhaps they lost money on it. And if the expansions didn't sell well enough to make their R&D money back, I'm sure they wouldn't continue to develop them.

*BUT*

When the Kronos is released, who's going to take a look at the raw OS files and compare them to the OASYS OS? It is possible to port the KRONOS OS to the OASYS, just not sure how difficult it would be. Linux is pretty open ya know... When mine comes in, I'll get a full dump of the HD for experimentation if someone in the OASYS camp cares to work with me...

[MartinHines]

I have never heard of a car that was designed and marketed specifically to be future proof and have an Open Architecture.

The point is that if the OASYS was a normal workstation keyboard then I don't think there would be discussions going on such as this, and certainly there wouldn't be the amount of disappointed OASYS owners and users that there are now.

I have NEVER seen this statement of the OASYS being "future proof" in any Korg produced literature. Please show it to me.

Unfortunately Korg probably over-hyped the OASYS and some OASYS owners had expectations that were too high. However, this does not mean that Korg purposely screwed OASYS owners.

One question for disgruntled OASYS owners -- assuming continued development for the OASYS was out of the question, would you have been happier if Korg NEVER used any of the OASYS technology on a new workstation? You had to know the OASYS was not the last workstation Korg would produce. Would you all have just preferred Korg release a slightly updated version of the M3?

[MartinHines]

But with Oasys and Kronos we have a complete new situation (sorry if I repeat myself) - for the first time we have compatible and equal hardware performance and a simple software update could change a Oasys to a Kronos - Korg only has to work on an installer for the Oasys. This job usually could be done in a few days, if it isn't just hours. Like I said before.. they don't have to do it for free..

This is simply not true. Korg would not be able to run the Kronos software on an OASYS with a "simple software update". If it were that simple, Korg would have done it.

[Rocness]

I have NEVER seen this statement of the OASYS being "future proof" in any Korg produced literature. Please show it to me.

They may not have said future proof but they did say Open , is that good enough for ya . So when he say's future proof you know he's talking about the O in Oasys so stop it.