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Jive Talking Robot

I come from the Motif workstation world (I sold all my softsynths and midi controllers and bought an XF last fall - it is a wonderful board); I was planning on buying an M3 module in 2011 to compliment the XF, but that plan changed the moment I saw Kronos (have a pre-order in already... with wife approval I might add!). Kronos is a stunner and will live quite nicely next to the XF.

I am trying to learn "Korg" workflow and I was hoping someone could confirm if I have the FX routing piece correct - I am basing my assumptions on some help the Korg forumers provided for me last year when I was looking @ the M3.

Scenario 1) If I wish to take a Combi and move it over to the sequencer, are all of the effects chains retained?

Scenario 2) Say I am in program mode and fall in love with a sound... if I move that program to the Sequencer, is it correct that it will "lose" it's insert FX, etc and that I will have "build" the FX piece of it back up again?

In the larger sense I 100% get how powerful the Kronos effects section is... I am really just trying to understand what gets "lost" when I move programs or combis in to a sequence (sometimes you fall in love with a sound in program mode only to realize a portion of that sound was FX). While Korg I think offers far more flexible routing options compared to the Motif, I have come to appreciate that how you can port up to 8 "voices" (or programs in Korg speak) to the Motif sequencer and retain their insert FX. It can be a fast way to work.

Sorry for being long winded, but my guess there will be more than one Yammy/Roland workstation user who might find "Learning Korg" useful, so I sincerely appreciate your assistance!

Cheers - BBJ

X-Trade · Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:52 pm Post subject:

If you are working in Program or Combi mode and want to instantly make a song primarily out of the song you are playing, all of Korg's newer workstations have an [ENTER] + [REC] shortcut which directly imports that entire program's effects, drum track, KARMA, etc settings into the sequencer and sets you up for recording.

It is adding more programs to that where it gets a little bit more complicated. But it really depends on how you like to work - there are a number of options.

But just going into sequener (or combi mode) and selecting a program for a timbre, you only get that timbre's sounds, without effects. Sometimes this leads to completely different ideas which aren't bad. Like you pick a distortion guitar, but then you hear it clean and end up writing a completely different song. Or you just take the opportunity to replace that flanger with a phaser, or that reverb with a snappy delay. Or something more abstract than that.

If you are used to the more traditional way of 'songwriting' in the sequencer - picking programs for what they are, and then using effects primarily as a part of the 'mixing' process, then you'll really appreciate the possibilities here.

Additionally, I hear that KRONOS allows you to copy insert effects from program to a combi or sequencer file and to start from the first free slot, rather than overwriting the whole effects setup like it would in other Korg workstations.

And I'm not sure how it works with Master effects. These are basically 'send/return' effects like on a mixer, and are best used for space or shared effects which are wet/dry and not 100% wet. So mainly delays, reverbs, and possibly chorus. Anything which you're likely to use for all of your sounds in different quantities. You can then tailor the delay or reverb for example to represent the space you want your mix to sit in.
Similarly, the Total Effects slots are best for mastering because they effect everything.
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Jive Talking Robot · Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 7:04 pm Post subject:

Cheers X-Trade. Thanks, as always, for providing such detailed answers.

danatkorg · Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 7:36 pm Post subject:

Jive Talking Robot · Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 7:43 pm Post subject:

^^^^!!!!!! That is BRILLIANT! Many thanks for the reply Dan! Here I thought I would have to spend time working around this.

All I can say @ this point is "thanks" for putting together such a well thought out product. Literally the only item left on my want list is a piano roll editor for the sequencer. This was the biggest challenge in moving from a DAW to a workstation for me, but seeing as the Motif doesn't have one either and I have gotten on just fine, I am not losing sleep over it. Still, it would be icing on the cake. Smile

Thanks again Dan and X-Trade for your assistance.

Jive Talking Robot · Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 7:08 pm Post subject:

Citizen Klaus · Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 7:49 pm Post subject:

Rocness · Guest

Shakil · Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 3:51 pm Post subject:

Hey Jive Talking Robot....

Welcome to the Korg side of the Workstation world...

Korg's IFX routing is much more flexible that other workstations (MOTIF and FANTOMs...)...

Both MOTFs and FANTOM Gs hard wire the IFX with the program, which is very problematic in a SONG setup. Every time you try a different program in same category, you lose the tweaks done to the IFX for that track. You can't save IFX settings as a separate preset, so you can 'teasily get same sound.

Also, you can't route multiple programs to the Same IFX... so you waste lots of DSP power if you want to use same effects for two programs..

KORG's effects routing is completely flexible. You have 12 IFXs after 3 band EQs on each Part. You can route any Part to any IFX. The IFXs can be chined together. You can route multiple parts to same IFX... You can route the Part at different stage within the effects chain as well. Let's say you have chained [IFX1 - Distortion] -> [IFX2-Flanger] -> [IFX3-Delay] -> Master Effects. You can route Part 1 to IFX1, Part 3 to IFX2, Part 4 to IFX3.... Part 1 will be processed by distortion+flanger+delay... Part 3 to will only processed by Flanger+delay.. Part 4 will be processed by only Delay....... !!

The drums mode lets you route individual drum sounds to any IFX.... so you can dedicate 4 IFX slots for drums and process kicks, snares, hats, percussion with different effects in addition to EQ and filter on EACH drum sound. Amazing!

Shakil · Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 4:03 pm Post subject:

Roceness....

I think you haven't seen the workflows on the other workstations.... it's even more painful... KORG's effects workflow is the most flexible and saves you time in the long run... once you have set up.. it's there and you can save templates for different song categories... so everytime you want to start a new song.. just select the template from the genre (there are also some preset templates with programs and effects routing done for you to get you started right away)... get down your ideas.. and later you can try different sounds and tweak the effects WITHOUT losing any work you have put into it...

On other workstations (Fantom-G and MOTIF), the programs are tied to effects, which is a flawed workflow... everytime you want to try a different sound on a track (bass 2 instead of bass1) you lose the effects settings you edited... so you waste a lot of time in putting everything back the way you wanted it... and no way of storing the effects as presets....

Moreover, you can not route multiple tracks to same IFX... with YAMAHA you are limited to having only 8 parts with effects at any one time.. other 8 are without.. even when multiple programs could be processed by same kind of effects.... So if you wanted to layer two program sounds and process them through same effects... you will have to manually duplicate the effects settings and waste the effects slot....

And on both MOTIF and FANTOM-G you can not chain Insert effects.. because each program has it's effects slot...

The main issue is that the insert effects in Fantom-G and MOTIF are part of the programs and not the mixer or independent units. On KORG the IFXs are independent units and can be chained and mixed in much more flexible way.
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nitecrawler · Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 4:28 pm Post subject:

Great explaination Shakil! I have also found Korg's efx proceedure to be a good efx router. You have indicated some proceedures that I had not been aware and "thanks" for that input.

nitecrawler Cool

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brimoore · Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 7:10 pm Post subject:

Shakil...

I absolutely LOVE your prodigious usage of the "ellipsis" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellipsis ) Smile

Apparently an em dash can also be used. I tend to use dashes when I'm texting...but the dots draw more attention I think. I wonder if the Kronos will allow ellipses in file naming....
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Shakil · Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 7:22 pm Post subject:

I guess if you want to search for all my posts.... search for "...."
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Jive Talking Robot · Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:09 pm Post subject:

Thanks Citizen Klaus! That helped to clarify a great deal.

Shakil! I always love it when you post... you bring the goods! Thanks, as always, for taking the time to right that up: the IFX workflow makes a lot of sense and I can see that it certainly gives you TONS of options. 12 IFX + EQs is really quite impressive - and frankly more than I am likely to use if I have to be honest with myself (I tend to use effects sparingly as it is... but that could be from working w/ the constraints of older workstations). But I feel much better about Kronos now that I understand the IFX workflow better - this has been/can be a crippling limitation if you tend to like to work a lot in "song" mode from your workstation, but I don't see it being much of an issue w/ Kronos.

Regarding other workstations: I only really "know" Yamaha and I appreciate their very clean, WYSIWYG approach to workstation design (even their IFX implimentation is basic but easy to wrap your head around). Korgs have always intimidated me as I always know there is more going on there than meets the eye. I have not used Kurzweils as much as I would like, but I seem to recall they have a similar flexibility with how they approach IFX in their sequencer mode (I just wished their GUI was a bit more up to date). I like what Korg is doing here, however.