Korg Forums

Pepperpotty · Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 3:15 pm Post subject: How do you get rid of latency?

Hi guys,

I'm relatively new to recording. I've been dabling for a while now but never quite able to get it right. I've been throwing a bit of money here and a bit of money there after getting advise from various sources but I never quite seem to get the results I am looking for.
So my question is, what's the best set up for me?
I want to be able to record guitar, vocals, keyboard and some kind of drums but haven't quite decided how I'll do that yet.
My guitar is hooked up to my Line 6 amp which is hooked up to my Lexicon Alpha interface. My mic is also connected to this which is then connected to my pc through USB.
My pc btw - Running Windows Vista, Intel core 2 duo, 2.6gzh, 4gb (don't really want to buy a new pc as this one is less than a year old)
My keyboard I'll be hooking up will be a Kork Pa800 which I'll be getting in the next few days. I'll either hook up with USB or midi to usb. Not sure which is best.
My recording software I use is Music creator 5, it enables me to bypass my sound card to reduce the latency but it's still really noticable. I record my guitar, and then the vocals, and when i play it back it sounds like there is a massive delay when I sing. The only way to overcome this is to change the start time of my vocals track until it sounds right. This is a massive problem for me as I really don't have the patience for this!

I also have a cubease recording software but I can't seem to get on with it. And the latency is even worse with this.

I don't mind spending some money to get this right but just not sure what I need to do.

Do I need to upgrade my PC? Or my software? Or is the problem with the Midi interface?

Also, can anyone recommend a good drum machine? I want something pretty basic. Something I can just sit at and play. Nothing that I need to spend hours at tweaking. Something with some good rock beats? Somethnig that will easily connect to my recording software.

Thanks,

Emma

X-Trade · Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 11:14 pm Post subject:

Your PC is quite good. Vista may be holding it back slightly but that's another story.
Your main problem is how you are recording and what you are recording with.

The Lexicon should be a decent audio interface, but you really need to make sure that MC5 and Cubase are set up to use the ASIO drivers. Other driver systems don't compensate for latency. With full ASIO you should be able to record even if your interface has really bad latency it will know what the latency is and adjust the recording such that it is still in time with your project.

Not sure about drums. Either get some mics and a real drummer, or try an electronic drum kit. Drums from electro kits are generally quite good, but the cymbals are usually where it is let down. I have an Alesis kit set up in my studio at home mainly for MIDI purposes.
Your PA800 will also have drums which may be good enough.
And I've used some software called BFD from FXPansion I think which is pretty cool, comes with a bunch of preset patterns/'grooves' which you can set up to trigger with MIDI notes.
_________________
Current Gear: Kronos 61, RADIAS-R, Volca Bass, ESX-1, microKorg, MS2000B, R3, Kaossilator Pro +, MiniKP, AX3000B, nanoKontrol, nanoPad MK II,
Other Mfgrs: Moog Sub37, Roland Boutique JX03, Novation MiniNova, Akai APC40, MOTU MIDI TimePiece 2, ART Pro VLA, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40.
Past Gear: Korg Karma, TR61, Poly800, EA-1, ER-1, ES-1, Kawai K1, Novation ReMote37SL, Boss GT-6B
Software: NI Komplete 10 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, Ableton Live 9. Apple OSX El Capitan on 15" MacBook Pro

Pepperpotty · Posted: Mon May 30, 2011 9:37 am Post subject:

Hi Brad,

Cheers for the advice. I am using the Asio driver on the MC5 and it helps no end but still not great.

I had thought about upgrading to Win 7 but not sure if it's really worth it as I'll probably be wanting to buy another pc in a year or so. Have you any experience with recording with macs? Was wondering if they're as great as everyone is making out.

X-Trade · Posted: Mon May 30, 2011 11:03 am Post subject:

Well I use a Mac and have been for about three years.
In some ways it is more straightforward and everything is kinda more user-orientated.
But it was still confusing at first.
There is also no ASIO because Apple have their own driver framework which provides the kind of latency adjustment that ASIO offers anyway.
But the best thing personally I think is that you're just buying a good quality computer. It costs about the same as any other similarly spec'd laptop or computer of similar build quality. With a PC you have more choice but particularly in the laptop arena there are plenty of PC options with good specs which look good but cheap build quality that will fall apart and won't really last you more than a year or two at the most.

Win7 won't really help your recording woes either, probably, although I imagine you'd see a performance benefit overall. I've done one or two vista to 7 upgrades over the past few months and it generally seems better. 7 is a bit more like the Mac OSX too in that the interface has some similarities but it is still very vista-like in appearance too.
You probably don't need it in the short term.

Anyway, I was recording on a PC, and then I moved to a Mac, both using Cubase. I have to say the Mac was easier to set up (which may be a part of your problem) but the overall performance benefit I saw was probably due to the newer processor in my mac (2.1 GHz Core2 Duo, 4GB RAM), compared to my old PC (P4 2.8GHz with 2GB of RAM).

The ASIO driver you're using - is it the one that came with your audio interface or is it just a 'wrapper' one?
Cubase sometimes comes with a kind of ASIO wrapper/emulator that isn't an actual ASIO driver, but just gives you access to your audio inputs in a more professional manner, and MC5 may do the same. Additionally there are things like ASIO4ALL which improves performance on standard built in cards but isn't a real ASIO driver and you should be using the one that came with your card or interface if it has one.
_________________
Current Gear: Kronos 61, RADIAS-R, Volca Bass, ESX-1, microKorg, MS2000B, R3, Kaossilator Pro +, MiniKP, AX3000B, nanoKontrol, nanoPad MK II,
Other Mfgrs: Moog Sub37, Roland Boutique JX03, Novation MiniNova, Akai APC40, MOTU MIDI TimePiece 2, ART Pro VLA, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40.
Past Gear: Korg Karma, TR61, Poly800, EA-1, ER-1, ES-1, Kawai K1, Novation ReMote37SL, Boss GT-6B
Software: NI Komplete 10 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, Ableton Live 9. Apple OSX El Capitan on 15" MacBook Pro

Pepperpotty · Posted: Mon May 30, 2011 11:51 am Post subject:

I'm using the ASIO that came with my interface. Maybe I should try and percevere with Cubase. The reason I gave up is cause I couldn't get the ASIO to work with it. But in general it's better than MC5.

synthjoe · Platinum Member Joined: 21 Apr 2010 Posts: 1011

Do you have any quantifiable measure of what the latency is (ms, samples, etc.)? Normally you should be able to bring it down to some acceptable level. You should make sure that you mute the track in Cubase while recording, so that the digital path does not return the delayed signal creating the echo effect. For this to work obviously you need some way of monitoring via an analogue path, I have not checked the Lexicon for this - but if it lacks this feature (often called 'zero latency monitoring', or similar), then a simle mixer with an adequate number of channels preceeding the recording interfaces might solve your problem. In this case you'd mix the monitor in the analogue mixer and return only playback signals essential for the overdub from the computer while recording.

Let me know if I can be more help - I'll try to check Lexicon related information to see how low a latency you can achieve without an external mixer.

Buying another computer might be an option, but I doubt it is unavoidable for the remedy.

Pepperpotty · Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 8:26 am Post subject:

Hi Joe,

Im getting a delay of about .96 of a second. (Almost a second) So it's really noticable. When you say mute the track. Do you mean to mute to track that I'm recording or mute the playback of the track already recorded?

X-Trade · Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 10:53 pm Post subject:

Just checked - in Cubase advanced settings there is a 'Compensate for device latency' checkbox. Make sure that is turned on.

Also good idea to turn your wireless off if you have it. Often causes problems.
_________________
Current Gear: Kronos 61, RADIAS-R, Volca Bass, ESX-1, microKorg, MS2000B, R3, Kaossilator Pro +, MiniKP, AX3000B, nanoKontrol, nanoPad MK II,
Other Mfgrs: Moog Sub37, Roland Boutique JX03, Novation MiniNova, Akai APC40, MOTU MIDI TimePiece 2, ART Pro VLA, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40.
Past Gear: Korg Karma, TR61, Poly800, EA-1, ER-1, ES-1, Kawai K1, Novation ReMote37SL, Boss GT-6B
Software: NI Komplete 10 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, Ableton Live 9. Apple OSX El Capitan on 15" MacBook Pro

synthjoe · Platinum Member Joined: 21 Apr 2010 Posts: 1011

X-Trade · Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:07 am Post subject:

Yes, but she did mention having to move recorded tracks for them to be in time, so definately worth checking if that box is checked.

And of course, if your device just has that much inherent latency, then it is just poor! but at least you can use analog monitoring as synthguy mentions. Forgot about that as I use it all the time. And the singer complements me on the "funky slapback echo" when when I turn track record monitor on to check levels.

I don't know if I changed a setting but AFAIK on Cubase you don't hear through the software when record arm is On unless you have also checked the monitor button too.
_________________
Current Gear: Kronos 61, RADIAS-R, Volca Bass, ESX-1, microKorg, MS2000B, R3, Kaossilator Pro +, MiniKP, AX3000B, nanoKontrol, nanoPad MK II,
Other Mfgrs: Moog Sub37, Roland Boutique JX03, Novation MiniNova, Akai APC40, MOTU MIDI TimePiece 2, ART Pro VLA, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40.
Past Gear: Korg Karma, TR61, Poly800, EA-1, ER-1, ES-1, Kawai K1, Novation ReMote37SL, Boss GT-6B
Software: NI Komplete 10 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, Ableton Live 9. Apple OSX El Capitan on 15" MacBook Pro

Pepperpotty · Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:46 am Post subject:

Hi guys,

Think I've found the problem.

I had the mixing latency set to high as when I moved it to lower although I get less of a delay the sound quality was appalling. I didn't realise that it only affected the sound quality for playback! So as long as I can tolerate monitering my guitar track in bad quality whilst recording my vocals I'm ok!

synthjoe · Platinum Member Joined: 21 Apr 2010 Posts: 1011

Hmmm, what you write makes me suspect some sort of an 'interrupt' issue. Could it be a hardware conflict? Is there a device connected to your PC that requires a constant data stream (recording to external disk, up/downloading data, etc.)? Disabling network cards (WiFi and wired) and virus scanners would be a worthwhile experiment, also, you might want to unplug/disable extra (or non-essential) devices connected to or installed into your PC for a test.

What is the CPU usage with an empty project open in your DAW software and no other activity on your computer at all? Could you see what the most active process is in your task manager while no DAW activity occurs? Actually, a list (screenshot) of active processes might help us to identify the reason for your poor playback performance.