Korg Forums

[Hal2001]

Before I got the K88 I almost bought the Motif XF8, partly because I like the "Performance" rhythms feature with arp rhythm variations which can be hit on the fly for live play. But I finally chose the K because of the IMO better acoustic piano sound. I'm thinking of maybe getting a Roland BK7m rhythm machine to fill in the gap to get rhythms. I can use such band in a box rhythms during my song writing at the keyboard. Any suggestions for either getting or creating good rhythm patterns that would be a good match for the K? I basically would like to create a setup where I could occasionally use my keyboard + Product X to make the setup work like an arranger, like a pa3x or Tyros. I would like to have buttons or pedal presses that could take me through different variations in any order, in real time. So far, I have not seen anything in Karma that is useful for making pleasant sounding rhythms, but I need more understanding of how it works and should be used.
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My Music: www.youtube.com/Halunlimited
Kronos 88 and Genos, Logic Pro, Omnisphere

[RonF]

You DO need more time with KARMA, as it is a VERY diverse rhythm generator. Its depth and diversity may be a "put off" at first....because its not a simple drum machine. But its an idea generator for rhythmic composition that can and will go far beyond any 'drum machine".

However, on the Kronos, you HAVE a simple drum machine! Its called Drum Track......in any program or combi....simply go in and change the Kit and the Pattern. Kronos is loaded with hundreds of patterns!

Certainly what you want to do you can do...syncing a traditional drum machine to the K for more diverse options. I sync all kinds of gear together, and it works like a charm. I posted something here that might interest you: http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=63254&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 (10th post).

I have a DSI Tempest on order. Should arrive in August. I think this MAY be the ultimate "drum machine" to sync to KRONOS. Can't wait!
_________________
http://soundcloud.com/ronf-3/sets/ronf-music
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr1zAKpV_F226LQZrUYGPQA
Favorite Gear: Kronos 61, M3, Z1, Radias, KPro, KP3, Moog Voyager, Foogers, Virus TI, Jupiter 80, Integra7, GAIA, SPD-30, Kiwi 106, RE-201, MC808, RC505, MV8800, DSI P6 and OB6 and P12, Ensoniq SQ80, EMU MP-7, Eventide H7600, Eclipse, SPACE, Pitchfactor, Timefactor, Looperlative LP-1, Axe FX Ultra, Nord Modular, DSI Tetra, Tempest, PEK, JDXA, Eurorack Modular, Octatrack, MDUW, Monomachine, A4, RYTM, Waldorf Q Phoenix, MWXTk, Blofeld, TR8.

[EXer]

[Hal2001]

Thanks much for your great suggestions. I did not know about the SPD. The Audya is great but exceeds my budget which is 1K max. Before I buy any equipment I'm going to dive deeper into the drum patterns and Karma in the K. I'd be interested in any methods or tricks that could make the K operate close to the way the Motif XF does with its Performance mode buttons. There you can go through a full listing of all the rhythm patterns organized by music genre and match them up easily with the voices you want. I wish I could just press the Karma buttons and get nice bread and butter rock/electronica/jazz beat variations with drums, bass beats and guitar strums, but I get the impression I have to program that myself rather than have instant gratification factory presets. Maybe I'm missing something obvious about the K. Right now, at first trial, I'm getting mostly a lot of random sounding Karma patterns when I go through the program voices and combis. Many times when I press Karma buttons I hear unpleasant metallic clanging type sounds and I want to turn that function right off.
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My Music: www.youtube.com/Halunlimited
Kronos 88 and Genos, Logic Pro, Omnisphere

[RonF]

With the Drum Track, you can change patterns in real time, and they are organized by "style", often with multiple variations per style. Just go the DT page, and open the list of Patterns. There you can browse patterns, and you will see they are organized fairly nicely....albeit not by categories, per se.

As far as KARMA goes, you need to get your head around a few basic KARMA concepts first. Without going too deep (for your sake), and keeping the focus on drums for a moment....realize that there are 4 KARMA modules. One of the four is often dedicated to a drum or percussion phrase. You need to focus on this one module....for drums and percussion. Each KARMA module is driven by a Generated Effect (or GE for short). Essentially, though I am oversimplifying, this is a "pattern", much like a drum pattern in a drum machine. You need to find the list of GE's (there are thousands!) for that module, and just like the Drum Track I explained above in paragraph one......simply open the list of GE's and browse. Your drum and percussion patterns will change as you change GE's. And these ARE listed by category!

What makes these GE's different, again over-simpliying, is that you can actually change the pattern in real time by moving the sliders and buttons. You need to simply go the Control Surface page of any program or combi, so you can SEE what each slider or button DOES! Then it will make more sense to you how to adjust these, and expect a result. And be careful, often just a single tick when editing these KARMA controls (i.e. moving from 89 to 90) will make a big difference in what you hear....so experiment...but be judicious in your edits to avoid extreme and non-musical changes in your patterns under KARMA.

Once you get familiar with this, you will enjoy how THESE patterns (GEs) are not fixed in the same way that drum patterns are. Rather they are dynamic, and these changes can be manipulated and recorded in real time. Of course, the same goes for Guitar GE's and Keyboard GE's and Synth GE's. And I am always amazed how a Guitar GE can sound great on a drum kit, or other non-intended-use.

Yes....Check out the SPD-30, its in your price range, and will open your mind and possibilities even greater than you can imagine. But no doubt the Kronos is deep and fully capable of satisfying your requirements, and them some.
_________________
http://soundcloud.com/ronf-3/sets/ronf-music
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr1zAKpV_F226LQZrUYGPQA
Favorite Gear: Kronos 61, M3, Z1, Radias, KPro, KP3, Moog Voyager, Foogers, Virus TI, Jupiter 80, Integra7, GAIA, SPD-30, Kiwi 106, RE-201, MC808, RC505, MV8800, DSI P6 and OB6 and P12, Ensoniq SQ80, EMU MP-7, Eventide H7600, Eclipse, SPACE, Pitchfactor, Timefactor, Looperlative LP-1, Axe FX Ultra, Nord Modular, DSI Tetra, Tempest, PEK, JDXA, Eurorack Modular, Octatrack, MDUW, Monomachine, A4, RYTM, Waldorf Q Phoenix, MWXTk, Blofeld, TR8.

[X-Trade]

Don't forget RPPR in sequencer mode... a staple go-to feature for playing various kinds of patterns live.
_________________
Current Gear: Kronos 61, RADIAS-R, Volca Bass, ESX-1, microKorg, MS2000B, R3, Kaossilator Pro +, MiniKP, AX3000B, nanoKontrol, nanoPad MK II,
Other Mfgrs: Moog Sub37, Roland Boutique JX03, Novation MiniNova, Akai APC40, MOTU MIDI TimePiece 2, ART Pro VLA, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40.
Past Gear: Korg Karma, TR61, Poly800, EA-1, ER-1, ES-1, Kawai K1, Novation ReMote37SL, Boss GT-6B
Software: NI Komplete 10 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, Ableton Live 9. Apple OSX El Capitan on 15" MacBook Pro

[Hal2001]

[Hal2001]

[billysynth1]

Did you also know that Stephen Kay sells a DVD tutorial on Karma using the M3 over at KARMA LABs. Although the example are done on the M3, the pages etc are the same i believe. Stephen did say you can use the M3 tutorial for the Oasys too... so i guess kronos would fit into this.
There was a 25% discount on this a short time ago


http://www.karma-lab.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17534

Billy
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Yamaha C1 Grand Piano.
Korg Oasys 88, Jupiter 80
Kronos 88, V Synth GT
I am a student of classical piano...I am not a classical pianist.

[Hal2001]

[RonF]

The KARMA functions are the same, and the physical controls are called the same thing. You will have no problem translating KARMA on the M3 to the KRONOS.
_________________
http://soundcloud.com/ronf-3/sets/ronf-music
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr1zAKpV_F226LQZrUYGPQA
Favorite Gear: Kronos 61, M3, Z1, Radias, KPro, KP3, Moog Voyager, Foogers, Virus TI, Jupiter 80, Integra7, GAIA, SPD-30, Kiwi 106, RE-201, MC808, RC505, MV8800, DSI P6 and OB6 and P12, Ensoniq SQ80, EMU MP-7, Eventide H7600, Eclipse, SPACE, Pitchfactor, Timefactor, Looperlative LP-1, Axe FX Ultra, Nord Modular, DSI Tetra, Tempest, PEK, JDXA, Eurorack Modular, Octatrack, MDUW, Monomachine, A4, RYTM, Waldorf Q Phoenix, MWXTk, Blofeld, TR8.

[Randelph]

HAL2001,
I don't know how much time you spent with the XF lining up their preset arps for drums, but when I did it it was not easy or fun, very time consuming. Auditioning 100's of different patterns, most of which, even in the categories I was looking for, were not that great or inspiring, making the search, all paper and pencil to notate the good ones, going back and forth to compare- waaay too much hassle.

YMMV if you liked more of their patterns than I did, but still, it is not a drum machine or even a computer that would make auditioning and compiling patterns much easier.

The one thing I did like though with my XS was that the patterns could be changed up with the real time control knobs, just like the KARMA patterns can.

Which contrasts to the drum track on the M3/Kronos. Those are fixed patterns, and don't have the real time change ups possible that KARMA or the XS/XF arps do.

I think its great and all to have super workstations like the Kronos that can do almost everything. But things are necessarily compromised trying to do it all within just one system, just as there's the potential for things to be more integrated.

All of which to say, it's totally worthwhile learning KARMA and RPPR, etc., lots of accompaniment power there; but I also think your original idea of having a dedicated box for rhythm to accomplish flexible rhythm generation is worthwhile as well- keep it simple and direct!

Randy
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Keyboards: Kawai ES920 / Casio CT-X5000
Instruments: Keys / Alto Recorder and Melodica

[Bertotti]

Gret thread but one question, what is rppr?

[X-Trade]

Realtime Pattern Play/Record. Something like that.

It allows you to assign looped or one-shot patterns from different sequencer tracks to keys on the keyboard. From there you could then assign those keys to the 'pads' too.
You can even set the patterns to latch, whether they trigger instantly, on the beat, or on the bar, etc.
Its a bit like some of the stuff in Ableton but only for MIDI patterns.
_________________
Current Gear: Kronos 61, RADIAS-R, Volca Bass, ESX-1, microKorg, MS2000B, R3, Kaossilator Pro +, MiniKP, AX3000B, nanoKontrol, nanoPad MK II,
Other Mfgrs: Moog Sub37, Roland Boutique JX03, Novation MiniNova, Akai APC40, MOTU MIDI TimePiece 2, ART Pro VLA, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40.
Past Gear: Korg Karma, TR61, Poly800, EA-1, ER-1, ES-1, Kawai K1, Novation ReMote37SL, Boss GT-6B
Software: NI Komplete 10 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, Ableton Live 9. Apple OSX El Capitan on 15" MacBook Pro

[Bertotti]

Gotcha thanks! I have seen that done but didn't know what it was called!