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GiantSonicRobot
Junior Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2011
Posts: 81
Location: Germany
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 Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 2:50 pm Post subject: Timbre-specific velocity response possible? |
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As I understand from the manuals, velocity curves are selected as a general setting in Global mode.
However there are a a couple of reasons why I would sometimes also need to adjust velocity response on a program or timbre-specific basis. Is there a way? So far I don't see any parameters e.g. in Combi-mode to set a timbre-specific velocity-curve.
I have a hunch that maybe KARMA could be used to modify velocity-data the way I would need to, but I am still a complete novice regarding KARMA.
Any ideas?
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Solaris, Wavestation, Rhodes 73 MKII stage, Access Virus TI, Nord C2 with Neo Ventilator, Kawai MP9000 & MP6, Novation 61 SL MKII |
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michelkeijzers
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Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Posts: 9113
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 2:55 pm Post subject: Re: Timbre-specific velocity response possible? |
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| GiantSonicRobot wrote: | As I understand from the manuals, velocity curves are selected as a general setting in Global mode.
However there are a a couple of reasons why I would sometimes also need to adjust velocity response on a program or timbre-specific basis. Is there a way? So far I don't see any parameters e.g. in Combi-mode to set a timbre-specific velocity-curve.
I have a hunch that maybe KARMA could be used to modify velocity-data the way I would need to, but I am still a complete novice regarding KARMA.
Any ideas? |
I don't think it's possible. I really should write an article about parameter inheritance, since this is the so-many subject about needing more flexibility or parameter values depending on hierarchy (programs/timbres/combis).
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Developer of the free PCG file managing application for most Korg workstations: PCG Tools, see https://www.kronoshaven.com/pcgtools/ |
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Andy Leary
Korg Research and Development
Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 38
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| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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The velocity curves in Global mode convert the physical key speed into midi velocity 0 -127. You should also consider the program's response to midi velocity. Even with the same global velocity curve, you can get a very different feel by changing the program parameters like Amp Velocity Intensity, Velocity to Filter EG intensity, OSC Multisample bottom velocity, etc. I think Amp Velocity Intensity is available on Tone Adjust as well so you can edit this in combi mode. As an example, if you want the same sound with a different velocity response you can copy it and then change the velocity parameters in the new program.
On the SGX-1, the velocity bias and velocity intensity parameters are two ways to really tailor the velocity response to your liking and save it per program. These allow for large changes in velocity response per program.
Hope this helps
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Andy Leary
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GiantSonicRobot
Junior Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2011
Posts: 81
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Andy Leary wrote: | | Even with the same global velocity curve, you can get a very different feel by changing the program parameters like Amp Velocity Intensity, Velocity to Filter EG intensity, OSC Multisample bottom velocity, etc. I think Amp Velocity Intensity is available on Tone Adjust as well so you can edit this in combi mode. |
I agree that using complex engines like e.g. AL-1, there are always a number of ways to taylor the velocity response of any given sound exactly to what is needed.
Some of the newer engines however are quite limited in this regard. You mention that on the SGX-1, the velocity bias and velocity intensity parameters can be used, but this is limited, since velocity bias only affects where the velocity switching happens, but it doesn't affect loudness. Velocity intensity on the other hand does affect loudness, but it only allows to compress the overall dynamic range.
My main issue though is with the EP-1. This engine doesn't seem to have any parameters related to velocity response.
When playing the Kronos' own keyboard (61), velocity curve 4 seems to fit my style of playing quite nicely for a majority of sounds, but for EP-1 programs I find it too light.
When I midi an external hammer-action board to the Kronos and set it's velocity curve so that it works well with the SGX-1, it feels too heavy with the EP-1.
EDIT: Here is a suggestion: If there was a parameter to set a velocity curve per timbre, and this parameter would default to "global" then all timbres would use the global setting except where the user specifically choses another curve.
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burningbusch
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Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 1203
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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| GiantSonicRobot wrote: |
Velocity intensity on the other hand does affect loudness, but it only allows to compress the overall dynamic range.
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That's not correct. Negative values compress the dynamic range, positive values expand it. I'm currently using a 61 and use +40 to provide a wide dynamic range.
| Quote: |
My main issue though is with the EP-1. This engine doesn't seem to have any parameters related to velocity response.
When playing the Kronos' own keyboard (61), velocity curve 4 seems to fit my style of playing quite nicely for a majority of sounds, but for EP-1 programs I find it too light.
When I midi an external hammer-action board to the Kronos and set it's velocity curve so that it works well with the SGX-1, it feels too heavy with the EP-1. |
You can use velocity or exponential velocity as a modulator on any of the parameters in the EX1 oscillator, including output level. I don't know if that's going to get you where you need to be.
FYI, when I record MIDI OUT from the Kronos off my 61, with the global velocity curve set to 3 the highest note4 I can record is about MIDI vel 120. At velocity curve 4 it's 124. Only at 5 and above can I hit 127.
Busch. |
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burningbusch
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| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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Also, refer to page 744 in the Parameter Guide for how the curves are affected. It sound like PostMIDI gives you more options as PreMIDI converts all incoming MIDI to velocity curve 4.
Busch. |
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GiantSonicRobot
Junior Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2011
Posts: 81
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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| burningbusch wrote: | | GiantSonicRobot wrote: |
Velocity intensity on the other hand does affect loudness, but it only allows to compress the overall dynamic range. |
That's not correct. Negative values compress the dynamic range, positive values expand it. I'm currently using a 61 and use +40 to provide a wide dynamic range. |
I should have been more precise. My point is that this is mathematically similar to a multiplication with a factor <1 (compression) or >1 (expansion).
Applying another velocity curve would be more like changing the exponent of an exponential function (somewhat similar to Gamma correction).
| burningbusch wrote: | | You can use velocity or exponential velocity as a modulator on any of the parameters in the EX1 oscillator, including output level. I don't know if that's going to get you where you need to be. |
I will have to do some more experiments in this area. Regarding the attack and release noises, I think you are right. There seems to be ample flexibility. Regarding the main harmonic sound however, only the loudness seems to be controllable but not how the coloration and overtone content react to velocity.
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Andy Leary
Korg Research and Development
Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 38
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| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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I know the main question here is about the EP-1 velocity, but I just want to clear up one thing about the SGX-1 velocity bias parameter. When Velocity Bias is at 0, the velocity curve is unchanged from the Global curve. Positive values make the velocity less exponential (more linear or even logarithmic) while negative values make the velocity more steeply exponential. There's a nice picture of this in the Parameter Guide under Velocity Bias.
Back to the EP-1... Modulating Harmonic Sound Level, Attack Noise, etc. may get you most of the way there. Since the Harmonic Sound and Attack Noise are independent, you may able to get what you want by making one of the more responsive to velocity than the other.
Velocity curve per timbre, or a velocity bias type parameter for the EP-1 are both good ideas. Thanks!
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Andy Leary
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