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michelkeijzers
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Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Posts: 9113
Location: Netherlands
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 Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| jorgemncardoso wrote: | Just wanted to leave my 2 cents here about the question of dedicated octave and transpose buttons. With respect for other opinions, to me the octave buttons can be handy for quick octave transpose like when i have to reach too far if i play the kbd at my side for instance if i'm playing with 3 boards, or if i'm playing a 61 kbd and i need to go to an higher or lower octave that is not on the kbd rage at the time, but that is just cause it's handy, i can live with out it. As far as transpose dedicated buttons, oh come on.... I've never transposed a key on the kbd if i have to play in another key in my life, sure it can be handy in a tight spot, if you are playing a complex piece and have to play in another key unexpectedly, but normally if i have to play something in another key i just play something is another key, i mean that is why i've learn to play every chords and scales on a keyboard, technology shouldn't replace natural playing abilities. I'm not saying it's always easy to play something we are used to suddenly in a different key, but it's something we should be able to, if we rely on technology to do everything for us, one of these days keyboard players will just hit a key and the keyboard will do the playing for them. Call me old school but i'm proud of that
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I think it's very good you can play in a transposed on the fly but I can't and I don't see the need to learn it myself. By the way, it's not only knowing how to do it, it is I am used to a scale for a song and if I know it by head it's difficult to change that (which is good because I don't have trouble remembering songs, not even after years, tough it depends on the song). And yes, I also know chords in all scales so that's not the point.
However, I don't need dedicated transpose buttons myself. In the rare occasion I need to transpose a combi I can transpose each timbre within a minute. However, it would be nice to have a combi transpose parameter. This can be done with a software update, no special keys are needed, meaning no new hardware design and production costs.
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Developer of the free PCG file managing application for most Korg workstations: PCG Tools, see https://www.kronoshaven.com/pcgtools/ |
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CoreyMast
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Joined: 21 Jun 2011
Posts: 100
Location: California
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| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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The transpose button comes in handy when a piece requires a harp glissando in a key with a few sharps or flats. You can always sample it though and put it on a pad.
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Corey Mast
Alesis Andromeda A6, Kronos 88
www.coreymast.com |
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michelkeijzers
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Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Posts: 9113
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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| CoreyMast wrote: | | The transpose button comes in handy when a piece requires a harp glissando in a key with a few sharps or flats. You can always sample it though and put it on a pad. |
Or make a keyboard split or harp timbre that is only transposed. You don't need to transpose the entire combi.
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jorgemncardoso
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Joined: 19 Aug 2008
Posts: 237
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| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | I think it's very good you can play in a transposed on the fly but I can't and I don't see the need to learn it myself. By the way, it's not only knowing how to do it, it is I am used to a scale for a song and if I know it by head it's difficult to change that (which is good because I don't have trouble remembering songs, not even after years, tough it depends on the song). And yes, I also know chords in all scales so that's not the point.
However, I don't need dedicated transpose buttons myself. In the rare occasion I need to transpose a combi I can transpose each timbre within a minute. However, it would be nice to have a combi transpose parameter. This can be done with a software update, no special keys are needed, meaning no new hardware design and production costs. |
You make a good point michelkeijzers, yes it is handy if you are used to play something in a key for a lot of time and for some reason you have to play in another, however for me, i learned to do that cause i used to play the same song a lot of times with different singers so i had to adapt on the fly to play in another key if needed, at the time there was the good 'oll M1 and a digital piano, i didn't have any transpose features. But if you know that you need to play something in a different key with some anticipation it's probably just as easy tmo make an alternate transposed combi for that song on the set list. Hey i'm a Genesis (Tony Banks) fan, and for the 2007 tour he played a lot of stuff with the original key transposed as it is complicated to play say, a kdb solo in a different key other that you've been used to in the last 20 years or so. I just think we shouldn't relay too much on that |
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michelkeijzers
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Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Posts: 9113
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| jorgemncardoso wrote: | | Quote: | I think it's very good you can play in a transposed on the fly but I can't and I don't see the need to learn it myself. By the way, it's not only knowing how to do it, it is I am used to a scale for a song and if I know it by head it's difficult to change that (which is good because I don't have trouble remembering songs, not even after years, tough it depends on the song). And yes, I also know chords in all scales so that's not the point.
However, I don't need dedicated transpose buttons myself. In the rare occasion I need to transpose a combi I can transpose each timbre within a minute. However, it would be nice to have a combi transpose parameter. This can be done with a software update, no special keys are needed, meaning no new hardware design and production costs. |
You make a good point michelkeijzers, yes it is handy if you are used to play something in a key for a lot of time and for some reason you have to play in another, however for me, i learned to do that cause i used to play the same song a lot of times with different singers so i had to adapt on the fly to play in another key if needed, at the time there was the good 'oll M1 and a digital piano, i didn't have any transpose features. But if you know that you need to play something in a different key with some anticipation it's probably just as easy tmo make an alternate transposed combi for that song on the set list. Hey i'm a Genesis (Tony Banks) fan, and for the 2007 tour he played a lot of stuff with the original key transposed as it is complicated to play say, a kdb solo in a different key other that you've been used to in the last 20 years or so. I just think we shouldn't relay too much on that |
Yes you are right in that. I like to play live (not using sequencers, arpeggios etc), because it changes from one synth to another. But guess I'm not such a good player I can tranpose on the fly.
Btw, your ability can also come in handy when playing a real hammond because those organs do not have a transpose at well. I have played on them on stage and luckily I didn't need to transpose.
If you are playign with different people than it would be nice to either have a tranpose key or (what of course is always better): to transpose in your head.
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jorgemncardoso
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Joined: 19 Aug 2008
Posts: 237
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| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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I can only wish i could play a real Hammond one day, unfortunately i've never seen one or played on one, it has to be a great thing playing on a real Hammond with a Leslie spinning at your side  Well i just think for me it's more fun to play in another key than transpose anyway, probably more challenging i guess, of course the risk of making a mistake is also bigger  |
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PinkFloydDudi
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| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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To those saying "just play it in the different key" - realize that not everyone is as amazing a keyboard player as you must be. Take the hardest piece you know...and then change it a half step down...now replay it, on the fly, with no prior practice.
If you can do it - you need to learn more difficult songs.
If you can't do it - then you will understand what some keyboard players who play in different bands or sub in for a band have to deal with.
For those expecting the transpose button to be a hardware button on the front panel, or on the main screen, I must respectfully disagree. Transposing is certainly not a function that is used by the majority of players for the majority of songs they play. It is certainly more of a "special circumstance". With all the stuff already on keyboard front panels and main screens, I would not like to see that added.
With that being said, it would be nice to see it on a secondary screen a bit more accessible, and certainly be able to apply it at a larger scale (like per setlist, or per combi) then it currently is able to do.
Lets face it, you shouldn't need to transpose and only be given 3 seconds to do it..nor should you have to transpose in the middle of a song. So I don't see having it right in front of you at all times as being necessary. If you find you have to transpose, having something available that you can get to in 10 or so seconds is fine (which to me, says secondary page, not main page or front page).
just my 2 cents. |
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Oboemd
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Joined: 18 Aug 2008
Posts: 69
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| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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Did I miss something?
How hard is it to go to Global, select "Key Transpose"
Alternatively use seq mode. Use blank seqs with pitch adjusted to desired key(s). |
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phattbuzz
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Joined: 15 Jun 2011
Posts: 790
Location: NH USA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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| jorgemncardoso wrote: | | I can only wish i could play a real Hammond one day, unfortunately i've never seen one or played on one, it has to be a great thing playing on a real Hammond with a Leslie spinning at your side Well i just think for me it's more fun to play in another key than transpose anyway, probably more challenging i guess, of course the risk of making a mistake is also bigger |
I remember the first time I played a real Hammond/Leslie, it was quite the experience. As soon as I started it up, I knew it was a beast I had to control. Finally got a real tonewheel tube Hammond about 10 years ago, and it's been a lot of fun, but the older I get the less fun it is loading it in and out of gigs.
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Latest Set Up: Kronos 61, Casio Privia, Korg TR61, EoWave Ribbon, Roli Rise 48, TEC Breath Controller, StudioLogic MP-117 Bass Pedals, Moog Theremini.
Past Instruments of Construction: Hammond A100 w/Leslie 760, Korg R3, Roland AxSynth, Korg Poly61, Korg M1, Univox MaxiKorg, Korg MS2000, (2) Moog Concertmate MG1, (2) Hammond X5, Rhodes Mark I & 2, Farfisa Compact, Yamaha S08, Casio SK1, Strymon Mobius, Custom Bass Pedals, Burns B3 Theremin. |
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michelkeijzers
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Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Posts: 9113
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 10:49 am Post subject: |
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| phattbuzz wrote: | | jorgemncardoso wrote: | | I can only wish i could play a real Hammond one day, unfortunately i've never seen one or played on one, it has to be a great thing playing on a real Hammond with a Leslie spinning at your side Well i just think for me it's more fun to play in another key than transpose anyway, probably more challenging i guess, of course the risk of making a mistake is also bigger |
I remember the first time I played a real Hammond/Leslie, it was quite the experience. As soon as I started it up, I knew it was a beast I had to control. Finally got a real tonewheel tube Hammond about 10 years ago, and it's been a lot of fun, but the older I get the less fun it is loading it in and out of gigs. |
I agree on both; I have played some gigs with a hammond (L100 if I remember right) and leslie (147), but both were quite heavy. Also not always too reliable. But nothing sounds better like a Hammond than such a combination. Later I bought a Hammond XK2 which sounds good but the keybed is only suited for organ sounds and thus not flexible enough (I don't use Hammond in each sound). So I sold it and use now a Korg M50 as main source. The organ is not as good, but when I have the Kronos eventually I hope to have a good enough solution.
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