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[shap]

A few weeks back, Stephen Kay mentioned in one of the monitor discussion threads that he uses a subwoofer in his studio. This prompted me to do some homework, and ultimately cost me a fair bit of money. I'd been putting off the subwoofer purchase, and the homework that Stephen prompted pushed me over the edge. The story is mildly interesting, so I wanted to pass it along.

Studio Environment

In my studio, I presently have a KRONOS 88 and a Motif XF side by side. The monitors are JBL LSR 4328Ps with an LSR 4312 subwoofer, which is a reasonably decent setup. I like the LSRs, and a lot of good professional mixing has been done with them. I like the Adam A7 line better for some things. Stephen prefers the Genelecs to the LSRs. Based on the conversation in the other thread, I think he would agree that it's a difference of taste rather than a fundamental argument about quality. I'd also note that his room is conditioned while mine currently is not. The room mode correction feature on the LSRs is fairly critical in my current setup, and largely unimportant in his.

At the moment, all of my synths are cabled through a MOTU 828mk3 hybrid acting in standalone mode as a matrix mixer with no processing being done on the MOTU. It's as close to a "direct comparison" environment as I could quickly contrive.

Comparing the Pianos

Both synths have samples of a Yamaha C-series piano, so a colleague and I were doing some side-by-side listening. Initially I had the subwoofer turned off - something that I intentionally failed to tell him. He felt that the KRONOS was good on the high end, okay in the middle, but complained that it seemed really thin on the low end. He felt the Motif XF sounded better on the low end, though still thin. It turns out that the two are EQ'd differently, and after fiddling with the EQ setup on the KRONOS, he was able to make himself happier, but still not satisfied. I agreed, but still set nothing about the subwoofer being turned off.

The following day, as a sanity check, we went in and spent about 90 minutes playing actual grand pianos. Partly for fun, and partly to determine how much of our perception was our memories and how much was real. Back to the studio afterwards, and with this sort of "near side by side" comparison, the KRONOS and the XF are undeniably thin when compared to the real thing.

Then we turned on the subwoofer (LSR 4312). And it was like night and day. The KRONOS is still somewhat thinner than the particular grand pianos we were playing, but there are a bunch of environmental issues that could account for the differences we heard. So Stephen is right (which is hardly surprising). But let's look a minute at why.

The crossover in most subwoofer setups is set around 80hz, and most conventional monitors don't perform well below 48hz (for some 42hz, but there isn't much "oomph" down there in most cases). For reference, 80hz corresponds approximately to E2 on your piano keyboard, and 40hz corresponds approximately to E1, and all of the "growly" bits in a piano are at frequencies below these. Absent a subwoofer, you are losing a lot down on the low end. Not likely to matter a lot for a trumpet, but could matter quite a bit for a baritone sax, for example, and a whole lot for a standing bass.

And sure enough, with the subwoofer enabled, both the Motif XF and the KRONOS come alive in a way you have to hear to appreciate, and the difference between them becomes more a matter of taste than quality. It's very clear that the two were sampled from different actual pianos using different mic positions and microphones, and I personally believe that these distinctions dominate the subjective differences between the two samples. That is: I think these distinctions are more important than the respective sample "depths". Just my opinion, mind you.

One nice thing about the LSRs for this test is that you can turn the room correction and the subwoofer on/off by pushing a button on a remote. This makes A/B comparison easy and therefore striking.

I do regret a bit that we didn't get a chance to run A/B/C comparison against the EastWest piano samples. I have those on hand, but we weren't cabled to do it quickly. I'm looking forward to doing that comparison, but I can't report on it yet.

Lessons

In part, there is a cautionary tale here about demoing a synth on a retail floor - how many have you seen hooked up with a subwoofer? Here in the US, a lot of them are hooked up to HSM50 monitors. And those are perfectly OK, but basically haven't got any low end. You can bring in your headphones, but many of those don't do real well on the low end either - be sure to check their frequency response curves. The Beyerdynamic DT-770s aren't bad at the low end, but their frequency response isn't exactly flat. The DT-880s are noticeably better. See if you can borrow one or the other for checking out the low end.

The other lesson here concerns subwoofers: Stephen is right. The good news on this is that a relatively cheap subwoofer makes a big difference. Further discussion on the above-referenced thread came to the conclusion that if you are choosing between 8" monitor woofers vs. 6" monitor woofers plus a subwoofer you should go with the "smaller" monitors with subwoofer; very often you will find that two 6" monitors plus the subwoofer will come out at about the same price as two 8" monitors. That's not the case for the JBLs, but it's approximately the case for the ADAM line (which are great monitors) if you are looking at (e.g.) the A7X vs. the A5X+Sub8.

As it happens, I've got a set of the LSR4326Ps here as well, so I could A/B the 6"+sub vs 8"+sub configuration and let people know what I hear if anybody would find that useful. From the specs on the respective monitors, I would be surprised to hear any great difference so long as the sub is enabled - the difference in the respective woofer performance mainly matters when the subwoofer isn't there.

Anyway, that's my amusing anecdote for the day. Worth what you paid for it, and for that matter, probably worth what I paid for it.
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Motif XF8, Kronos-88 (ordered), V-Synth GT, DT-Extreme eDrums
PC Core i7-920/24GB/3TB (2x)
Motu 2408mk3 + 24I/O
Sonar Producer, everything EastWest
Brian Moore iGuitar+Roland GI-20, Composite Acoustics 6, 12 string guitars, Multiple Ovations from when they were still worth it
Presonus Eureka (2x), TC Helicon VoiceOne
ADAM A7's and JBL 4328Ps, each for its purpose
Border Collies + Misc. Squeaky Toys

[Mystic38]

I would like to add the disclaimer that IMO Subwoofers can only add to a system that includes high quality main monitors, placed correctly in a treated room of adequate dimensions to support bass extension without adverse room effects.

In pretty much any other situation they are a waste of money.. Side effects can include, but are not limited to.. muddy uncomfortable bass, boom around 100hz, color in lower midrange, loss of detail and transparency.. In extreme cases you will Lose the ability the tell a kick drum from a synth bass and start to like rap.

The above statements have not been validated by the FDA
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Korg PA4X, Nord Stage 3, Virus Ti Polar, Novation Nova II, Yamaha S70XS, MPC-X, TC Helicon Voicelive Rack, KRK VXT8 monitors, 2012 LP Standard, 1999 Am. hardtail Strat, Fender DRRI, Orange AD30HTC, Marshall Vintage Modern, 2 cans and a piece of string...

[jazlover]

I bought a used subwoofer (in pristine condition) last Sunday. The sonic difference is wonderful. The low end of the grand pianos is so pleasing. My studio is not built yet and the subwoofer is too close to the keys but still the difference was so noticeable. This machine is a joy...(sorry a another kitten just died).
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“I’m into scales right now.”
John Coltrane

[danatkorg]

[RonF]

I find that if a room is tuned correctly, with a subwoofer in it, then it makes mixing bass...which is one of the hardest parts of mixing for diversity....much easier. However....if your room is not tuned well....adding a subwoofer is going to cause chaos, and make mixing bass even more difficult than it already is.

so...for live playing...use a subwoofer to taste...in the same way you might EQ any venue, whether for a live performance, or for your studio. but if you are recording, and seek to mix a pro-level presentation that will translate onto many systems (with and without a subwoofer)...you need to spend the time to tune your room...and LEARN the best adjustments (level and crossover points) for your monitoring system.
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http://soundcloud.com/ronf-3/sets/ronf-music
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Favorite Gear: Kronos 61, M3, Z1, Radias, KPro, KP3, Moog Voyager, Foogers, Virus TI, Jupiter 80, Integra7, GAIA, SPD-30, Kiwi 106, RE-201, MC808, RC505, MV8800, DSI P6 and OB6 and P12, Ensoniq SQ80, EMU MP-7, Eventide H7600, Eclipse, SPACE, Pitchfactor, Timefactor, Looperlative LP-1, Axe FX Ultra, Nord Modular, DSI Tetra, Tempest, PEK, JDXA, Eurorack Modular, Octatrack, MDUW, Monomachine, A4, RYTM, Waldorf Q Phoenix, MWXTk, Blofeld, TR8.

[Bertotti]

amazing how one little sentence can be so much work and in some cases so hard to accomplish!