Korg Forums

[Fopperr.M3]

I use a Roland Fantom X7 full expanded with a clavia nord Electro II live.

It works perfect for me, but... sometimes you need to invest some time and money in a new synth just to "stay with the time".

My band playes all kinds of stuff; From David Guetta to chris willis, from rage against the machine to Rammstein.

Of course is the Roland fantom X7 an older machine and is missing lots of features... only the FX are very very very poor... and the reverb is just awfull! After a lot of programming I "found" the Fantom X and are satisfied.

We use a miditemp but only play audiofiles because of the very high quality (logic) so the sequencer part is not interesting for me.

Piano (what I heard is very good!)
brass/trumpets etc. (even worse that roland)
strings is good
synths is good, but don't know if I can work with the Kronos
organ... the Fantom X is very poor of organ sounds (thats why I use the Nord)

Of course I know that a synth maybe doesn't fall within a sec and should be played a few months... but to buy a kronos voor €3500,-... I think it is a bit expansice trying..

Are there more musicians that use a synth in a band like mine (www.Q5band.nl) and have experience with the kronos live this way?
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Korg Kronos 61, Mainstage 3, Macbook pro 13" i7.

[BasariStudios]

Cook Eggs...
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[RonF]

I have both of the keyboards you are asking about....Fantom G and Kronos. There really is little to compare. Kronos wins. The only area that Fantom G, perhaps, excels in is its sequencer and external midi control modes. Beyond that....from a sonic perspective....Kronos is your dream live performance took kit.

I will never sell the Fantom G....because its a fantastic tool as a midi controller (especially for external midi hardware) and as a hardware sequencer. But as a sound source.....Kronos is miles beyond.
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http://soundcloud.com/ronf-3/sets/ronf-music
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr1zAKpV_F226LQZrUYGPQA
Favorite Gear: Kronos 61, M3, Z1, Radias, KPro, KP3, Moog Voyager, Foogers, Virus TI, Jupiter 80, Integra7, GAIA, SPD-30, Kiwi 106, RE-201, MC808, RC505, MV8800, DSI P6 and OB6 and P12, Ensoniq SQ80, EMU MP-7, Eventide H7600, Eclipse, SPACE, Pitchfactor, Timefactor, Looperlative LP-1, Axe FX Ultra, Nord Modular, DSI Tetra, Tempest, PEK, JDXA, Eurorack Modular, Octatrack, MDUW, Monomachine, A4, RYTM, Waldorf Q Phoenix, MWXTk, Blofeld, TR8.

[Broadwave]

I totally agree with RonF.

I also have an X6 with a few SRX cards (Complete Orchestra, Big Brass and Ultimate Keys), which gives me a better choice, but sadly not better quality, of strings and brass which I feel the Kronos currently lacks - that, of course, is just a personal opinion. Let's see what Korg have in the pipeline regarding the future libraries they've mentioned.

I'm more than happy to mix and match both keyboards, but the Kronos has those 9 engines, which is a massive bonus.

I still rate the Kronos as the best keyboard I've owned in 33 years!
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Synth DIY Projects

[Bruce Lychee]

I hated the Fantom G and think you would be in for a different and much improved experience with the Kronos.

I do have to say though, If you really don't need sequencing and rhythm generating functions you should probably check out the Jupiter 80, as it excels in many of the categories you listed, is great for live use and might be more familiar to you... Although you probably want to keep the Nord for organs. I listened to Maceo Parker's keyboardist use the Nord for organs and I don't think I've heard a better live setup.
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Shigeru Kawai SK5
Roland Jupiter 80
Vintage Vibe 64

[SanderXpander]

I know the Fantom but don't own it. My current live setup is a Nord Stage classic 88 and a Triton Extreme 88. One of my bands seems to overlap somewhat with yours, at least insofar as the David Guetta stuff goes, we don't do much Rammstein. I ordered a Kronos 88 to replace my Nord Stage because;
1. The Stage is too basic for when I need to bring only one board to a gig. Even doing just piano/strings is impossible, though it has a wonderful piano/pad in place of that.
2. The organs in the Nord are disappointing to me. The Leslie is very good but the organs don't seem to cut through the mix very well, especially when having to do a solo. I end up using the Triton's organ for soloing.
3. The piano sound on the Nord, while pleasant when playing in a studio situation, has too much low-mid in the sound and not enough nice high-mid to cut through the band. And there's only the 3 band fixed EQ and a very basic compressor on it. I've played the Kronos piano for a few hours and while I can see a similar issue might arise in a full band situation, in Kronos you have a plethora of options to adjust that; setlist 9-band eq, 12 IFX (compression/more EQ), adjusting the velocity response, etc. On the Nord I hardly ever get a really nice mix in the band.

I already have the Triton Extreme with MOSS and that makes some of the sounds a bit redundant. But I have so many well-working sounds already programmed (including sample-based stuff, e.g. "Hello" by Martin Solveig and "One" from Swedish House Mafia) that I don't see that much need to update on that end. When programming new (synth?) stuff, I now have the option of doing it on the Kronos or on the Triton. I'll probably end up on the Kronos for most of it and just have the Triton to fill in the blanks.

What a Kronos offers you;
1. Setlists
2. Smooth sound transistions
3. Inspiring and intuitive new synth models/engines
4. The best piano and EP in the biz
5. Very good and extensive FX section

[Vlad_77]

I am a dinosaur I suppose then because I STILL love my Fantom X8. I have used it in prog, metal, Celtic, folk, classic rock, and neo-classical.

But you ask what the Kronos would do for you? Hmmm...

If nine synth engines, open sampling, the best hardware pianos available on a workstation, patch that can cut through a mix for Rammstein and play softly for easier stuff, intuitive interface and crystal clear orgasmic sounds aren't enough, then it will do nothing for for you.

Okay, sorry about the orgasmic sounds but I am between girlfriends right now :p

Ahimsa,
Vlad
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Current gear: Kronos, Jupiter 80, Kurzweil PC3,Roland Fantom X8, Roland XV-88 (yep, its old, but the ACTION is heaven and those XV-3080 sounds are still wonderful for me), Radias-R, Motif ES (yeah it's older but I love the guitars )

[RonF]

[jimknopf]

I had the Fantom X and replaced it by the G.

Like others, I agree that the Fantom X was quite a mature product at it's time, after the last big update. And some SRX-boards were really well done and useful.

My Fantom G is only here for last checks of any usefulness (perhaps a few favorite sounds for resampling), before it will be sold. The development and support for the Fantom G by Roland have been my by far biggest disappointment over many years, all my brands used so far included. I still regard it as a shame, how Roland abandoned this board halfbaked within three years, with minimal and insufficient updates, and without any recognizeable will to treat Fantom G users as customers worth support and communication. For the future, this company has lost too much of my trust to be considered any more, and I still see weird mixtures of impressive strength (polyphony, some nice sounds) and crazy weaknesses (idiotic lack of controllers, lousy file system, closed architecture without sampling etc.) in the JP80, just like in their other keyboards of the last years.

Since I use the Kronos, the never before achieved "one board" use possibility has become a reality for me. I still like to use other keyboards, but in doubt I don't have to (rehearsals, small gigs). And for the very few cases you don't find or program what you want: the Kronos is an open system and allows you to add (multis)samples of your choice.

Concerning sound characteristics, only very few "holes" have been dsicussed so far. My short overview:
- the pianos are excellent, but the factory patches are not (yet) optimized for loud band context
- the eps are overwhelming good, even more soon as finetuned by own programming
- all three VAs belong to the best avalilable on both hard- and software
- the CX3 is a first class B3 clone organ (contgrary to some dreadful sounding of the first factory patches), but you will miss the first class overdrive of the Clavia
- the single brass sounds seem - contrary to common opinion - to be easily as good as those on a Yamaha XF, if you take that as reference - as burningbush has proved by direct XF comparison (find the link in this forum), and certainly better than on any Fantom. What seems missing are some really convincing, fresh sounding modern R&B horn section patches/combis.
- pads and strings deliver all you might need and want from my view
- acoustic and electric guitars - mostly older HD1 patches - don't sound too convincing to many of us. STR1 is very interesting, but still sounds a bit rough and edgy to my ears - or nobody has yet been able to prove otherwise by programming.

You should in any case test a Kronos for some time, and while doing so remember that this one - even more than other devices - is HIGHLY adjustable, programmable, editable to your liking, across nine great engines: I don't see any synth with comparable sonic power and comparably wide sonic horizon right now.
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Kronos 73 - Moog Voyager RME - Moog LP TE - Behringer Model D - Prophet 6 - Roland Jupiter Xm - Rhodes Stage 73 Mk I - Elektron Analog Rytm MkII - Roland TR-6s - Cubase 12 Pro + Groove Agent 5

[TSUNAMI]

It will make you totally irresistible to women !!!
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13in Retina MacBook Pro, Quadcore i5 27in 8GB iMac, Logic Studio 9.1, Ableton Live9, Push, Volca Beats, Korg KRONOS 61, Korg Arp odyssey, Roland D50, Yamaha SY85, Moog Sub37, Roland TR8, Roland SP808, Korg NanoPad2, Eventide H9, Presonus 1602, Alesis M1 MkII, Yamaha APX5, Fender Splattercaster, DrumKat DK10, 1000 miles of cable !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[RonF]

[RonF]

[jimknopf]

Don't want to start another lengthy pro/con JP80 discussion, but answer to your points as good as I can.

Basically the JP80 offers an allrounder soundset - not like the Kronos, but it covers many standard sounds. But if I wanted to rely on it as main keyboard, I would not struggle about definitions: I would just utterly miss the sampling function to get on board what I miss.

On the other hand, if you would regard it mainly as a VA with nice natural instruments addons, the first thing I would look for is a controller interface at least of the Gaia kind (plus screen). I just would want to play and edit the synth side in an intuitive way like on other VAs.

Yes, four knobs can be helpful if you just want minimal access to some essentials. And yes, sometimes I don't survey the multiple controllers of the Kronos at first sight. But like on VAs, I'm getting used to the most common settings fast, and then again, I really like how I can have it all at my fingertips to my liking.

So all in all, the JP80 may be fine for someone, but to me it is neither fish nor flesh, for the reasons I outlined: I couldn't use it without being irritated one way or the other all the time. And that would even be a kind of Fantom G deja vu for me.

Back on topic
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Kronos 73 - Moog Voyager RME - Moog LP TE - Behringer Model D - Prophet 6 - Roland Jupiter Xm - Rhodes Stage 73 Mk I - Elektron Analog Rytm MkII - Roland TR-6s - Cubase 12 Pro + Groove Agent 5

[RonF]

No worries jim. Wasn't looking to start any type of JP80 debate. You brought it up.....I was only clarifying your statements.

I would never use the JP80 as my "main board"...anymore than I would use a Virus or a Moog as my "main board". Its too limited in its sound set and function. For a main board....I need a comprehensive sound set and features, including a Sampler, more like a Kronos, or a Fantom G. The G failed us both, my friend, for many reasons that we absolutely agree upon.

The JP80 is another thing altogether. If you don't like or can't work with dedicated "touch-screens" (in the dedicated way that Roland has implemented it...ala more like an iPad than like a Kronos)...then stay away from iPads and JP80's....for sure. But that doesn't mean that its not a well implemented touch screen interface, or without promising vision on the part of Roland. One thing to point out in this regard....the important (and limited) physical controllers on JP80 are 4 assignable knobs which work closely in tandem with the touch screen. Just to draw a valid comparison....this was the exact layout of the Korg Triton series for years! 4 assignable knobs working closely in tandem with a touch screen interface. With that in mind, the JP80 is not really THAT flawed conceptually is it? In fact, in all respects it is a nice improvement over the *interface* of the Triton series in this regard. I was a Triton Studio owner for years and used it deeply on dozens and dozens of projects, and never was irritated by its controllers or touchscreen.....because it all seemed so innovative and cutting edge.

FWIW....I would prefer a GAIA type tactile control surface myself! But I must say that the better I get to know the JP80 and the more I work with it, the more impressed with its interface I become, and the better results I get.

However...I 100% respect that it is not for you, and perhaps not for many users, for the reasons we have touched on. No more needs to be said. Thanks for hearing my points.

EDIT: And BTW...how is this Off Topic when the OP is referring to a Fantom G?! Its entirely On Topic....please do not infer otherwise JUST because its the JP80 we're talking about. Sir.
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http://soundcloud.com/ronf-3/sets/ronf-music
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr1zAKpV_F226LQZrUYGPQA
Favorite Gear: Kronos 61, M3, Z1, Radias, KPro, KP3, Moog Voyager, Foogers, Virus TI, Jupiter 80, Integra7, GAIA, SPD-30, Kiwi 106, RE-201, MC808, RC505, MV8800, DSI P6 and OB6 and P12, Ensoniq SQ80, EMU MP-7, Eventide H7600, Eclipse, SPACE, Pitchfactor, Timefactor, Looperlative LP-1, Axe FX Ultra, Nord Modular, DSI Tetra, Tempest, PEK, JDXA, Eurorack Modular, Octatrack, MDUW, Monomachine, A4, RYTM, Waldorf Q Phoenix, MWXTk, Blofeld, TR8.