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popmann
Senior Member
Joined: 24 Sep 2011
Posts: 350
Location: Nashville
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 Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:27 am Post subject: Resampling older synths? |
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I've never really created samples of my own-all past sound design was always based on stacking/layering and filtering. But, I've got and old D70 with some custom pads that are SO cool as musical "glue". I'd really like to create multisamples of those handful of patches.
What's the easiest way to go about it, oh synth experts? Would it be better to create samples of the LA synth components and "rebuilt" the patches in the Kronos, or just create multisamples of the pad as/is? I can built similar sounds in modern synths, but they never have the same warmth...if that makes sense. |
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McHale
Platinum Member
Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 2487
Location: B.F.E.
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:11 am Post subject: |
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If you *HAVE to sample it, depending on the sound you can sample once per octave or twice or third etc... Do it with no effects and use the KRONOS for effects.
*BUT*
I refuse to sample synth sounds. If you have the synth in front of you I'm positive you can get close enough with stock waveforms/engines to get that sound without sampling. I never sell a synth until I've re-created all the patches on the new synth. Once you no longer have it in front of you, it can be a bit more difficult if the sound it complicated or well known.
just my .02.
-Mc
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Current Korg Gear: KRONOS 88 (4GB), M50-73 (PS mod), RADIAS-73, Electribe MX, Triton Pro (MOSS, SCSI, CF, 64MB RAM), SQ-64, DVP-1, MEX-8000, MR-1, KAOSSilator, nanoKey, nanoKontrol, 3x nanoPad 2, 3x DS1H, 7x PS1, FC7 (yes Korg, NOT Yamaha). |
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NuSkoolTone
Approved Merchant
Joined: 19 Mar 2007
Posts: 1069
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 2:08 am Post subject: |
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It really depends IMO. Sometimes it's just easier to multi-sample a patch, do the looping and call it day. This is especially true if the original synth has a very distinct sound due to its filters and DACs.
Though if your new synth can emulate the architecture of the old synth sometimes sampling the waveforms raw and then just trimming and looping them can be the best foundation to re-program patches.
You could in some instances do no sampling and then emulate the best you can using what's in the machine, though you may lose the inherent quality that made the other synth worth re-creating in the first place! Sometimes the only way to find out which method works best is to try all three.
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Korg: KRONOS 73, M50-61, 01W/r
Yamaha: Motif XS7, FS1R
Kawai K5000S, Roland JD-990 w/Vintage Synth |
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Rosen Sound
Approved Merchant
Joined: 06 Jan 2010
Posts: 1056
Location: Los Angeles, California
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:54 am Post subject: |
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you can find examples of what youre talking about on my website in my signature.
What i did for layered sounds is just leave the volume for each timbre as is, then turn off any velocity so even if i hit it soft it will play at full 127
then i did every third i believe.. you can download them on my site to see... then just loop them. cross fade looping is always a nice tool!
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Current gear: Korg Kronos 61, Oberheim OB-8, Alesis Vortex
Past Gear: Triton Extreme w/moss & ram, Korg Radias, Kurzweil Micropiano, Triton classic, & Karma
Come visit my Burbank California repair shop/recording studio! Rosensound.com
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Mike Conway
Approved Merchant
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 2433
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:35 am Post subject: |
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| robbinhood wrote: | | What i did for layered sounds is just leave the volume for each timbre as is, then turn off any velocity so even if i hit it soft it will play at full 127. |
Yes, you can get away by sampling one velocity - 127 (you can do this with the Kronos Pad function, which has a velocity output parameter, so every note press is 127). Then assign the lowpass filter of your Kronos to the sampled sound. You can use the Kronos filter and amp to give your sound expression.
Remember: it is much easier to make bright samples soft, than to make soft samples bright.
If you are sampling a synth that has unique filtering characteristics (like an analogue synth), then use the pads to sample at soft, medium and high velocities. Kronos has 8 velocity crossfade zones, so you can sample more than 3 velocities if the sound is really detailed (different timbres coming in at different velocities).
Normally, I would suggest the following:
Sample not C1 at medium and high velocity (use a pad output to keep this consistent).
F#1
C2
F#2
C3
F#3.....all the way up the note range.
Allow each sample zone 3 notes down, 3 notes up as a range, so that you don't "stretch" them too out of character. That's plenty for synth sounds. For something as detailed as a piano, you might want more samples, so that the pitch stretches -1, original, +1. |
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sani
Senior Member
Joined: 22 Jul 2002
Posts: 354
Location: Croatia
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 10:42 am Post subject: Re: Resampling older synths? |
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| popmann wrote: |
What's the easiest way to go about it, oh synth experts? Would it be better to create samples of the LA synth components and "rebuilt" the patches in the Kronos, or just create multisamples of the pad as/is? I can built similar sounds in modern synths, but they never have the same warmth...if that makes sense. |
It's up to you. Sampling the separate tones and rebuild the patch will make the looping process much easier.
Some advices:
You should turn the effects off.
If you are sampling the single tones, use an initialized patch where no filters are applied and with a standard ADSR envelope.
As suggested, turn velocity off.
If you sample the separate tones, your final samples will be much shorter because they are very short out from factory and setting the loop will be easier. You'll see the graphical wave and you can easily identify the repeating part of the sample. You'll also probably not need a lot of samples because most of the multisamples use just a few single samples.
If you sample the whole patch, you'll have to use longer samples and more of them to create clean transitions between the separate sample ranges. Setting the loop will also be harder, you'll have to create longer loops and probably use the crossfade loop function to remove some click sounds which will appear at the loop points.
A final thought: it's hard to say if you can capture the original warmth. This depends on various factors from the original keyboard and can't be always captured with the sampling process. |
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shawnhar
Full Member
Joined: 28 Aug 2011
Posts: 160
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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I think you need to evaluate what it is about the original sound that you want to keep.
If you love the filter characteristics or complex modulator processing of something like a vintage analog synth, you don't have much choice but to sample the entire sound (in which case your patch programming on the Kronos will be very simple, pretty much just play back the sample as-is).
If you love the way the sound responds to velocity or other realtime controllers, just sampling the whole thing will not capture any of that. In this case you want to sample just the raw oscillator/PCM (having turned off all filters, modulation, effects, etc, or even just set up a new init patch on the old synth that simply plays the original waveform unmodified), then recreate all the subsequent programming on the new board. This is usually rather more work, but can leave you with a much more controllable, expressive patch. |
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