Korg Forums

[neverkorgagain]

Is there any program that can replace keyboard arangers.... i would like to try this combination....

[billbaker]

Band-in-a-Box used to be the standard. Cheap, Jazz/pop oriented, and you could enter chords for your "chart" and play along. It wasn't really intended for live use tho'. Not interactive.

The thing that's missing from PC based arrangers is that interactive follow function. Except for the PC based version of KARMA I don't know of another program that does true real-time arranging.

Any more the computer-based arrangers have been overtaken by programs like Acid, Fruity Loops, Reason and Garage Band that use loop libraries to build groove oriented arrangements you can play over. And the limitation - at least with the lite versions of these programs - is that the loop is the loop , it doesn't transpose easily, it doesn't follow input, all the arranging has to be done beforehand.

More advanced programs like Abelton Live and Logic (Full + Express) do offer more flexibility in transposition, choosing loop points and "move on" functions that let you play distinctive sections (i.e., verse chorus, bridge, etc.) but they're all going from a different POV than that of a keyboard player.

Computer based arrangers are more flexible than a 2 turntable dj set-up.

They offer easier loop / groove sampling and arranging of loops / grooves than a dj is used to.

So - pretty much - if loopy groovy high-chug-factor one key music is not what you're looking to play you'll be happier with an arranger module - - some of the older ones are not too awful sounding (GM) and most offer some (limited) user style writing capability -- and if you want the chug and the follow, look for a Triton rack.

BB
_________________
billbaker

Triton Extreme 88, Triton Classic Pro, Trinity V3 Pro
+E-mu, Alesis, Korg, Kawai, Yamaha, Line-6, TC Elecronics, Behringer, Lexicon...

[BasariStudios]

PC Arranger are being on the market for a long time and also have been
used by players for a long time, they do not resemble DJ programs and
they work EXACTLY as any hardware arranger would do except, they will
sound way better. Bill says about BoB that it was Jazz or whatever oriented
but i dont think thats true, there is no such a thing as Jazz Oriented, the
styles will be what YOU make, Jazz or Rap or Blues...deppends what you
need and what you make, the Sounds also will not matter, it will work on
what you input into it. You can find them being used all over the world.
A good MIDI Master Controller, a good PC Setup, Good Libraries and one
of these PC based programs will kill anything HARDWARE existing.
There is few of them, Band-in-a-Box, One Man Band, Yamaha's Live Styler
and also Dan wrote a Program for Ketron's SD2 Module which can now be
used as ANY Ketron arranger and costs only like 300$.
_________________
http://www.basaristudios.com
Cubase 8.5 Pro. Windows 7 X64. ASUS SaberTooth X99. Intel I7 5820K. ASUS GTX 960 Strix OC 2GB. 4x8 GB G.SKILL.
2 850 PRO 256GB SSDs. 1 850 EVO 1TB SSD. Acustica: Nebula Server 3 Ultimate, Murano, Magenta 3, Navy, Titanium.

[billbaker]

Basari -

The arranger programs I cited are all more DJ oriented and subject to the limitations cited.

B-i-a-B, at least in the editions that were out last time I looked were not real time interactive. That may have changed. It definitely started out as a Jazz practice tool tho', so much so that there were deluxe editions of Band-in-a-Box with Real Book --- if you were a horn player and had the Real Books you could finally play along and practice tunes (jazz, blues, latin) with the right feel and tempo. That B-i-a-B has evolved and adapted is true - now plays country, rock, pop and even artist signature styles. Maybe even Rap... for some values of Rap.

It's not hard to sound (programs) better than most arrangers, but it requires lots of work and aint cheap.

Define please the level of good master keyboard, good program, and good PC required to "kill" a hardware arranger (korg or yamaha) and I might agree.

But I suspect that (using your figures and going cheap) the $300 Ketron program, the $300+ master controller, the $800 PC, $ ?? for good sample libraries, plus the peripheral gear that go with it, and the headaches if any of it is less than reliable under live use conditions make your $1000+++ "kill" wishful thinking or at least hyperbolic.


BB
_________________
billbaker

Triton Extreme 88, Triton Classic Pro, Trinity V3 Pro
+E-mu, Alesis, Korg, Kawai, Yamaha, Line-6, TC Elecronics, Behringer, Lexicon...

[xmlguy]

The BIAB developers have another product for live arrangements: RealBand.

[BasariStudios]

Bill, the software world has gone long ahead since last time you checked
as to describe just read my signature and that a PC Arranger to it.


Another wrong conclusion, i am sorry, no disrespect meant but i dont know if
you are up to date with the PC world. A Tyros 4 is over 4000$ and for that
money a PC Setup will KILL any existing hardware machine, including Kronos.

A good Stable PC with components way better then whats out there in the
most sophisticated Hardware synths with i7 Procesor...1500$ (i've done it).
A TC Electronic Audio Card PC Impakt Twin, light years ahead of that of
any existing hardware synth including cronos...300$ (i've done it).
A good Master Keyboard, there is tonz of them...500$ (i've done it).
A good few Libraries NI Komplete...600$, EWQL Goliath...400$ (i've done it).
A good PC Arranger Software, 1 of the 4 i mentioned above...300$. (i tested)
And another hundreds of Free VSTs on the net.

That adds to around 4000$ (about)...remember, this is a high end Setup which
i have, use, test and everything...but this doesnt necesarilly mean that anyone
has to have that Setup nor the Software requires this Setup, they can work on
MOST of the 800$ todays computers...and most of us already have those computers...
And after you Set all this up then i invite you with your PA3X, M3, MOTIF, KRONOS,
TYROS16 and what not...shoulder to shoulder with the cheapest PC Setup, not mine..
...and oh, i forgot, i left something that you can hold on to...thats hours of work...
well i am talking about musician and ambitious people and people that actually know
how to do at least Something...as for the rest i dont know, even synths dont work.

And this is for you so you can keep up to date:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIRt23eDa-I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vkwGUBz8KI&playnext=1&list=PL7EA79A3CB03C32AA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nqt5bjswOVg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRizzk-DA0c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tU-Iiw2WSqI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU2kkESdhKg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-nxm_h3az4
_________________
http://www.basaristudios.com
Cubase 8.5 Pro. Windows 7 X64. ASUS SaberTooth X99. Intel I7 5820K. ASUS GTX 960 Strix OC 2GB. 4x8 GB G.SKILL.
2 850 PRO 256GB SSDs. 1 850 EVO 1TB SSD. Acustica: Nebula Server 3 Ultimate, Murano, Magenta 3, Navy, Titanium.

[billbaker]

BS-

Maybe we could ask 'never' what his budget was. He never did say.

I've seen your equipment list, thanks.

$4k is a hell of a budget - I don't doubt that you could set up a serious studio for that -- you've apparently have done just that. Congratulations.

I never said Tyros or $4 grand or better, but if you want to, then you might acknowledge that THAT's the budget you're trying to kill with - your choice, your words.

As to setting up all that -- hardware arranger, power in, signal out. Done.


BB





BB
_________________
billbaker

Triton Extreme 88, Triton Classic Pro, Trinity V3 Pro
+E-mu, Alesis, Korg, Kawai, Yamaha, Line-6, TC Elecronics, Behringer, Lexicon...

[worth]

The mediastation has not yet been able to produce 1 demo that rivaled an intermediate level arranger keyboard. where i respect Nedim and his enthusiasm he completely has underestimated the work that has been done wth hardware arrangers such as the one touch settings , the balanced sounds using the manufacturers proprietory sounds that have been equalized specifically for the instrument it has been played on , the layout of the keyboard in terms of ergonomics etc. In fact i would challenge anyone to show me a demo where a softeware only option could be used in live use as easily and sound as good or better than the hardware option.

The fact that there arn't such demos is because there is too much work involved to get the software personalised method to sound as good as the hardware alternative.

[neverkorgagain]

So there are software arrangers, but not good enough to replace hardware, or to be even better, for now.... when i wrote better, i ment, to be easyer for use on live performance, and better in style quality...
_________________
Roland fantom X7, Roland fantom Xa, Korg Pa3X, Korg Pa1000, Juzisound Micro, Medeli Akx10, Yamaha Tyros 3

[Deane]

There is a software arranger that does replace a full blown hardware arranger.
It plays Ketron styles, Yamaha styles up to and including the Tyros 4 styles, and will soon play Roland styles.

It is called vArranger. Check out the website and the forum
at www.vArranger.fr I own this software and gig with it daily using
a Ketron SD2 unit and a Roland A-800 Controller. I works great and the
developer, Dan, provides the best end user support you can find and he charges nothing for his time.

Deane

[rikkisbears]

Hi,
there's 3 of them, that I know of, starting from cheapest to most expensive.


http://www.1manband.nl/
( plays yamaha style format)

http://live-styler.net/
( Live Styler plays yamaha style format)
(Live Styler PLus plays Yamaha & Ketron style format & has conversion software that allows other style formats to be played also)

http://www.varranger.fr/
Plays Ketron, Yamaha style format. Also working on including Roland format.

Personally I don't think the software arrangers have the same impressive style format of my Korg PA800 or PA3X, but for something like $50 you can buy One Man Band or the basic version of Live Styler, just to give it a try. ( I think they also have demo versions.)
They do require work to get styles sounding any good.
I haven't spent a lot of time with VArranger, but VArranger midied to my sd2, sounds pretty good as is , with the ketron styles. Haven't tried it with the yammies.

Band in a Box isn't a realtime arranger. Good for doing backing tracks or recording songs. Latest versions also use audio styles ie real drums, guitar strums, guitar picking, piano tracks etc real bass tracks etc
You basically type in a chord progression, it creates a backing based on the chords & style you've chosen.
Real Band was also mentioned ( I think) it's a sequencer that comes with Band in a Box to do additional editing. It also generates BIAB style tracks.

ie you load in a midifile. You can replace just say the midi guitar track with a real guitar track from one of the Band in a Box styles or replace the drum track with real audio drums. Really easy , you just choose the song track you want to replace, choose the real guitar style part you want to replace it with, press generate, and it works off the chord track in the midifile. Takes a few second.
http://www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.htm