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joesi
Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 7
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 Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:26 pm Post subject: Soundquest Editor jumble |
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| I have been using the Soundquest editor for years with my other synths. Now I have to run 2 versions for my setup - my old editor for my gaggle of synths and - for the Kronos- the Korg editor from Soundquest. Hey Korg, how about offering the editor as an add-in to my existing Soundquest editor? I am quessing that would mean authorizing Soundquest to add it as a download for Soundquest users. Let's simplify things here! |
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SoundQuest
Junior Member
Joined: 06 Apr 2012
Posts: 81
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 2:19 am Post subject: |
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You will be able to install the Kronos editor in to Midi Quest 11 (no release date available at this time). Substantial enhancements to the Quest architecture were necessary in order for the software to handle the Kronos' ~50,000 parameters. These will automatically be integrated into the next release.
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Michael |
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zzz
Full Member
Joined: 20 Jul 2011
Posts: 195
Location: Just across from there
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Hello Michael of Soundquest, I hope you are taking into account all these comments on the editor. Also if you are there, any ideas on why it won't speak to my K? |
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SoundQuest
Junior Member
Joined: 06 Apr 2012
Posts: 81
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, we're watching the comments. Some can be addressed. Some seem to indicate people don't realize that there is up to 50MB of data between the software and the Kronos. Even with USB2, moving this much data takes time.
In terms of connection issues, I don't know what your specific problems are. You need to ensure the that USB drivers are properly installed and running and from what I have seen, is is possible for OS 1.6 to be installed improperly so that the version number that the Kronos outputs is actually not correct causing the software to ignore the instruments response.
It is important to remember that it is still possible to manually configure the MIDI ports (running through USB) to talk to the instrument. You just need to select the Kronos specific ports in the MIDI IN and MIDI OUT ports dialogs and the software should be able to talk to your Kronos even though it wasn't found automatically.
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Michael |
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DrpC
Junior Member
Joined: 18 Dec 2011
Posts: 58
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:22 pm Post subject: Many thanks and several request please... |
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Hi, Michael (SoundQuest).
Thank you for all your time, support and willingness to listen to our community. 
Can you please share with your team if they could please add the play and record button options to the standalone (not sure if it's possible with the plugin) 
We need a way to copy over ANY combi or program into the sequencer so we can record it as well in the sequencer
Can you please fix the screen size so we can maximize the editor to what every each individual screen resolution is using currently
(Currently, the maximized button is mute)
If there is any way you can correct the latency between the Kronos and the software it will be very helpful for us
While I do understand and share your thoughts to the complexity with the Kronos, (It's a MONSTER of a rig  ), sometimes it's taking a bit long between the two just to reponse and change screens, etc. 
Thanks again for ALL your time and support for our community!  |
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motic
Full Member
Joined: 14 Jan 2012
Posts: 153
Location: NL
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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| SoundQuest wrote: |
In terms of connection issues, I don't know what your specific problems are. You need to ensure the that USB drivers are properly installed and running and from what I have seen, is is possible for OS 1.6 to be installed improperly so that the version number that the Kronos outputs is actually not correct causing the software to ignore the instruments response.
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Haven't read about those issues yet except for one on KLF, but if i may add my 2 cents...:
on the windows side, probably the allowed amount of installed midi devices is not endless, mine was responsive to the editor after removing one of the others (SV-1) as 'uninstalled with the midi driver uninstall program' (present were SV-1 and M3.
Only after that was the K recognized even if it was present in the windows configuration.
Can't check about Mac.
Hope this info helps somehow.
-=Moreno=-
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Music @ www.Soundclick.com/motic |
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zzz
Full Member
Joined: 20 Jul 2011
Posts: 195
Location: Just across from there
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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Michael (and the guys at Soundquest), thank you for replying so quickly. Understand my frustration! Yes, the K is a monster, and extremely complex, and it looks like you've been pushed into an early release, but... I've checked all drivers, and my pc reckons they're all ok.
I'll have another look at manually midi mapping tomorrow, when I'm fresh, but I'm barely only a beginner at midi, after all, it just works! (normally).
As far as future wants for the editor, like you've doubled the number of voices visible onscreen for setlist etc, something like that for tweaking the various synth engines would be great.
Any more hints for midi mapping by hand? |
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SoundQuest
Junior Member
Joined: 06 Apr 2012
Posts: 81
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:40 am Post subject: |
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| zzz wrote: | Michael (and the guys at Soundquest), thank you for replying so quickly. Understand my frustration! Yes, the K is a monster, and extremely complex, and it looks like you've been pushed into an early release, but... I've checked all drivers, and my pc reckons they're all ok.
I'll have another look at manually midi mapping tomorrow, when I'm fresh, but I'm barely only a beginner at midi, after all, it just works! (normally).
As far as future wants for the editor, like you've doubled the number of voices visible onscreen for setlist etc, something like that for tweaking the various synth engines would be great.
Any more hints for midi mapping by hand? |
Standard MIDI message usually "just work" because communication is one way. For the Kronos SysX, all of the communication needs to be bi-directional so there is much greater likelihood of communcation issues.
When you refer to MIDI mapping, are you talking about MIDI port selection? If you are, under the MIDI menu, open the MIDI IN and MIDI OUT ports dialogs, uncheck the "use all ports" option and this will list all of the available ports. If you don't see the Kronos ports listed, you have a problem with the drivers.
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Michael |
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SoundQuest
Junior Member
Joined: 06 Apr 2012
Posts: 81
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:56 am Post subject: Re: Many thanks and several request please... |
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| DrpC wrote: | Hi, Michael (SoundQuest).
Thank you for all your time, support and willingness to listen to our community.
If there is any way you can correct the latency between the Kronos and the software it will be very helpful for us
While I do understand and share your thoughts to the complexity with the Kronos, (It's a MONSTER of a rig ), sometimes it's taking a bit long between the two just to reponse and change screens, etc.
Thanks again for ALL your time and support for our community! |
Loading the editor definition has been optimized as much as it can given the number of parameters that each editor is handling. I can tell you that this process is multi-threaded so the more cores you have, the faster the editor will be created.
I haven't seen a clear definition of what the "latency" issue is. If you're talking OS X Lion, there is nothing we can do because the problem is out side of the software.
If you are talking the time it takes to load a complete Set (that's 4 - 5 mintues), that is simply how long is takes at full speed USB 2 to transfer over 50MB of data. There is no way to optimize this further but you only have to do this once. After that, you can load your file from disk which is extremely fast.
I saw one reference that it took 4 seconds to audition a patch. Yes, it will if you are using the MIDI ports instead of USB2. The Kronos is unlike any other instrument out there, the data sizes are huge and transfer times over MIDI or USB 1 ports make things pretty much unusable. Normal patch auditioning as tested on many, many computer systems is a fraction of a second. Again, there isn't anything obvious that we can do here. A great deal of time was spent optimizing transfer speeds without sacrificing reliability of the transfers.
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Michael |
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Sharp
Site Admin
Joined: 02 Jan 2002
Posts: 15928
Location: Ireland
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:48 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | If you are talking the time it takes to load a complete Set (that's 4 - 5 mintues), that is simply how long is takes at full speed USB 2 to transfer over 50MB of data. |
I assume you mean seconds ?
Regards
Sharp.
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curvebender
Platinum Member
Joined: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 760
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:16 am Post subject: |
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| Sharp wrote: | | Quote: | | If you are talking the time it takes to load a complete Set (that's 4 - 5 mintues), that is simply how long is takes at full speed USB 2 to transfer over 50MB of data. |
I assume you mean seconds ?
Regards
Sharp. |
I'm also confused by this statement.
Let's hope he either means 4-5 seconds, or 5 Gb!
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Paul: Don't be nervous.
John: I'M NOT NERVOUS!!! |
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QuiRobinez
Platinum Member
Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 1184
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:28 am Post subject: Re: Many thanks and several request please... |
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| SoundQuest wrote: | | I saw one reference that it took 4 seconds to audition a patch. Yes, it will if you are using the MIDI ports instead of USB2. The Kronos is unlike any other instrument out there, the data sizes are huge and transfer times over MIDI or USB 1 ports make things pretty much unusable. Normal patch auditioning as tested on many, many computer systems is a fraction of a second. Again, there isn't anything obvious that we can do here. A great deal of time was spent optimizing transfer speeds without sacrificing reliability of the transfers. |
I was the one that mentioned that. I'm using USB2 so i've did some extra testing.
The amount of time it takes to audition sounds is between 4 and 12 second depending on if you are in the program or combi screen. I've got this behaviour because i'm used to double clicking, now i've discovered that when you single click a preset in the Bank manager (and only there!) then only a program change is sent and it is instant, so no delay there.
When double click the item a sysex string is sent which causes a delay of 4 seconds for a program and between 10 or 12 seconds for a combi.
Also when selecting combi's from the main combi screen (the arrow behind the name) the 10 seconds wait is steady. Only in the bank manager it works instantly.
I can understand that it takes time to sent al these sysex messages when you double click or select an item. But those are small messages, you keep saying that you need to sent up till 50 Megabyte which i can believe if you sent the full system, but only a program or combi shouldn't have 50 megabytes of sysex strings (that's a lot of text).
And even so, the speed of USB2 is 480 Mb which is 60 megabytes per second, so why does changing a combi more then 10 seconds, you can sent 600 megabytes in 10 seconds over an USB2 line when you have an optimal connection.
I'm not trying to be negative in any way, but i really can't believe how it's working at the moment considering how all my other editors behave. I simply don't get it?
Or am i the only one that has this problem (considering that you tested it on lots of systems)?
Maybe it's a setting i've missed in the kronos or on the computer?
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Soundset links: ElectroPhoretic | SpectraKinematics | AnalogHypnotics | Harmony Keys |
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SeedyLee
Platinum Member
Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 531
Location: Perth, Australia
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:37 pm Post subject: Re: Many thanks and several request please... |
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| SoundQuest wrote: |
If you are talking the time it takes to load a complete Set (that's 4 - 5 mintues), that is simply how long is takes at full speed USB 2 to transfer over 50MB of data. There is no way to optimize this further but you only have to do this once. After that, you can load your file from disk which is extremely fast. |
Just to clarify for those who aren't ware, there is a difference between Full-Speed USB2 and Hi-Speed USB2. Full-speed USB2 is approximately the same speed as USB1, and I'm guessing from Michael's statement that the KRONOS only supports USB2 Full-Speed at apprimately 12 Mbps. 50 MB at 12Mbps will take approximately 30 seconds (if using the full bandwidth).
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Korg Kronos 61, Triton LE 61/Sampling/64MB/4GB SCSI (Sold, sob), MS2000BR, Monotribe, Monotron, NanoKontrol, NanoKeys, Kaossilator II, Roland JV-80, Kawai L1, Casio HT-3000 (Sold, sob), Lexicon MX200, Motu 828 mk3, Presonus FaderPort, Motu MicroLite, Rode NT1-A, Tascam VLX5 Monitors Tascam CD Player, Shure SRH840 Headphones. Shure IEM, Shure SM58, JBL PRX12 monitor wedge. |
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QuiRobinez
Platinum Member
Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 1184
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:51 pm Post subject: Re: Many thanks and several request please... |
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| SeedyLee wrote: | | SoundQuest wrote: |
If you are talking the time it takes to load a complete Set (that's 4 - 5 mintues), that is simply how long is takes at full speed USB 2 to transfer over 50MB of data. There is no way to optimize this further but you only have to do this once. After that, you can load your file from disk which is extremely fast. |
Just to clarify for those who aren't ware, there is a difference between Full-Speed USB2 and Hi-Speed USB2. Full-speed USB2 is approximately the same speed as USB1, and I'm guessing from Michael's statement that the KRONOS only supports USB2 Full-Speed at apprimately 12 Mbps. 50 MB at 12Mbps will take approximately 30 seconds (if using the full bandwidth). |
good point, i wasn't expecting that it uses the full speed protocol, but that makes sense considering the performance i see.
In my opinion there hasn't change that much to the editor to make it an acceptable version. Here are my constructive points:
Wishes for changes:
- Create a simple bank manager for program, combi or sequencer mode so that the patches are loaded when you load your DAW project. No editting involved at that time so the speed can be really great because no sysex messages has to be send. The current bank manager is ok but should be integrated on a higher level for selecting presets in the DAW.
- Store the Midi learned parameters connected to knobs or faders that you select yourself in the VST setup for total recall purposes, this makes automation possible.
- create a 64 bit VST, it's really unacceptable in 2012 that there isn't a 64 bit plugin.
The current editing works fine, personally i like it that the screens mimics the kronos GUI, that way you only have to learn once where every parameter is available. So for me this is a good design decision.
So basicly only 3 things has to change, a simple bank manager for total recall in DAW setups, Midi learn functionality to every parameter that is stored in the VST setup so that automation is possible and most importantly the 64 bit version.
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Soundset links: ElectroPhoretic | SpectraKinematics | AnalogHypnotics | Harmony Keys |
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Morten'J
Full Member
Joined: 12 Jan 2005
Posts: 130
Location: Denmark
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:14 pm Post subject: Re: Many thanks and several request please... |
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| SeedyLee wrote: | | SoundQuest wrote: |
If you are talking the time it takes to load a complete Set (that's 4 - 5 mintues), that is simply how long is takes at full speed USB 2 to transfer over 50MB of data. There is no way to optimize this further but you only have to do this once. After that, you can load your file from disk which is extremely fast. |
Just to clarify for those who aren't ware, there is a difference between Full-Speed USB2 and Hi-Speed USB2. Full-speed USB2 is approximately the same speed as USB1, and I'm guessing from Michael's statement that the KRONOS only supports USB2 Full-Speed at apprimately 12 Mbps. 50 MB at 12Mbps will take approximately 30 seconds (if using the full bandwidth). |
They are High speed ,from the Kronos Manual :
This high‐speed USB 2.0 port lets you connect to a Mac
or Windows PC, for sending and receiving MIDI and
audio, and for connecting to the computer editor
program.
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