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Need help finding/picking a looper.
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gregbankley



Joined: 27 Mar 2012
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:53 pm    Post subject: Need help finding/picking a looper. Reply with quote

So I purchased the R3 a few weeks ago and it is pretty sweet. The problem is , I don't really have any other band members right now, so I am looking for a looper. I purchased the Jam Man JMl2 and it works good, but I do not have control over individual loops. That is a problem. I am looking to perform a live show, that is continuous, something like lotus, that goes from jam to jam, so smooth on the transitions.

A couple suggestions on the forums that I have already got:

KP3- WHICH i am considering getting, BUT I don't know if this will be my answer as an ultimate mixer. Maybe just as effects.

Ableton- I was planning on getting the novation launch pad with ableton lite, but I realized I don't want to be sittting behind a computer or pad figuring out my loops.

Is there something that is more on the fly? Like the Jam Man looper but more flexibility and better, being able to control individual volumes of loops.

My budget is trying to stay under 300, I have the Jam Man to sell/trade, also a mini kaos that I could sell. Help would be so awesome! I hope to get a drummer, and I ideally I would love to have a set up like lotus or sound tribe.
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gregbankley



Joined: 27 Mar 2012
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*KP3- ULTIMATE LOOPER/MIXER

*Also, RATATAT is another set up that I would like to be similar as.
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roblabs
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Joined: 25 Sep 2011
Posts: 1391
Location: NYC

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why don't you also check out the Roland SP404? I tend to see peeps using that almost as much as the KP3, sometimes in conjunction as well. See if that floats your boat.

(I completely understand your apprenhension to sit in front of a computer more than you need to do looping)
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gregbankley



Joined: 27 Mar 2012
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I checked that out but it seemed more for DJing. I am looking to play the keys, a little guitar, maybe hop on the kp3, but I am looking for something that I could potentially use with a band as well , if that makes sense.

Sorry for the confusion. Thanks aggain for your help man.
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tpantano
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Joined: 21 Oct 2009
Posts: 1384

PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a big, amorphous gray blob between 'DJ' equipment, synthesizers and keyboards. What matters in the end isn't so much what they're called so much as what they do.

The SP-404 allows for:
Quote:
After the SP-404 is loaded with the audio of your choice, the fun begins by creating custom beats and tracks via onboard pattern sequencer. This easy-to-use sequencer allows up to 8,000 notes to be recorded in real time at a resolution of 96 TPQN. For perfect playback, your pattern data can be quantized to the note value of your choice. Up to 24 patterns, each 1–99 measures long, can be stored in the internal memory simultaneously. On CompactFlash cards, you can save 96 additional patterns with 8,000 notes of recording capacity per card.

_________________
Current: MS-20 Mini, Minilogue, SY77
Past: Korg R3, Volca Bass, X50, Mg Slim Phatty, Rld Gaia SH-01, Yamaha TX81Z
Have my freebie granular plug-in: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=192886
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gregbankley



Joined: 27 Mar 2012
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:59 am    Post subject: Thanks Tpan Reply with quote

Thanks Tpantano,

Are you saying that the sp-404 would be fitting for me? I could look more into it just seemed more as DJ equipment, when I am looking for a looper at my feet for a keyboard (r3) or guitar .
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tpantano
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Joined: 21 Oct 2009
Posts: 1384

PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Thanks Tpan Reply with quote

gregbankley wrote:
Thanks Tpantano,

Are you saying that the sp-404 would be fitting for me? I could look more into it just seemed more as DJ equipment, when I am looking for a looper at my feet for a keyboard (r3) or guitar .


The SP-404 can do what you're seeking to do. It just isn't meant to be stepped on, as with most professional equipment.

Live is quite honestly still the best option, and again, if you get a controller- you're not going to be tied to a computer. If you practice with and properly set up a LaunchPad, an APC40, or even a Korg MicroKontrol, NanoKontrol or NanoPad, you can begin to use them without ever looking at your computer's monitor. You'll only have to touch Live for pre-performance preparation, and to open a program before your performance starts.
_________________
Current: MS-20 Mini, Minilogue, SY77
Past: Korg R3, Volca Bass, X50, Mg Slim Phatty, Rld Gaia SH-01, Yamaha TX81Z
Have my freebie granular plug-in: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=192886
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gregbankley



Joined: 27 Mar 2012
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

o ok so that makes more sense.

I am going to look more into ableton then.. But what about getting the audio into ableton? How do I do that?

I want to be able to loop my r3 and my guitar, or mic or something. How does all this stuff go through ableton?

AND my second question would be, what controller would be best for me for ableton lite? Launch Pad b/c it comes with lite? Or maybe I could look into the apc40? I think I am going to sell my loop pedal, so I can get the apc40 or the launch pad. It seems like the apc40 has more control of volume with the sliders, for loops. And I guess I will need a mixer for my mini kaos pad.
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tpantano
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Joined: 21 Oct 2009
Posts: 1384

PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gregbankley wrote:
o ok so that makes more sense.

I am going to look more into ableton then.. But what about getting the audio into ableton? How do I do that?

I want to be able to loop my r3 and my guitar, or mic or something. How does all this stuff go through ableton?

AND my second question would be, what controller would be best for me for ableton lite? Launch Pad b/c it comes with lite? Or maybe I could look into the apc40? I think I am going to sell my loop pedal, so I can get the apc40 or the launch pad. It seems like the apc40 has more control of volume with the sliders, for loops. And I guess I will need a mixer for my mini kaos pad.


For the first question, have a read through this:
http://korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=50987

You'll need a sound interface to record into your computer. Your computer may even have one already, such as a microphone input.

For this second question- it's all subjective. The controller with the most integrated features is the APC40; it also carries the highest price tag. The launchpad is essentially a dumbed down APC40, and the Micro series have various features of each.

It's here that price and more importantly preference come into play. Decide what you need- will you really need all of those launch buttons to playback pre-recorded loops and samples? Do you want mixer sliders to change out the volumes of various synths? And more importantly, which piece has the features you want at a desirable price?

Sometimes, more features isn't necessary:


Unfortunately for those who like answers to be black and white, in music or any other art, there is no 'best' answer. You can make beautiful music with a Monotron, which is just an oscillator, a filter and LFO.



You could do the same thing with a Radias- for an originally four digit price.

It all comes down to subjectivity, what you want to accomplish and how you individually want to accomplish it.
_________________
Current: MS-20 Mini, Minilogue, SY77
Past: Korg R3, Volca Bass, X50, Mg Slim Phatty, Rld Gaia SH-01, Yamaha TX81Z
Have my freebie granular plug-in: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=192886
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gregbankley



Joined: 27 Mar 2012
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:19 pm    Post subject: thank you Reply with quote

Ok i here what you are saying. I do want to have control over individual loops, like volume control, which the apc40 seems to have, but I don't know if I need as many launch buttons as it has. Is there a smaller version of this with sliders?

I like the looper in the first video. What was that and was it going through ableton?

Also, I read the article you posted. Which soundcard do you suggest I get for my r3 into the mac? I know i will stay external, just not sure which one, or if I definitely need one. I don't have 1/4 inch inputs in my computer so I probably do, I need a mixer anyway for my mini kaos pad. Is there a soundcard/mixer-all-in-one out there?

Thanks man
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roblabs
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Joined: 25 Sep 2011
Posts: 1391
Location: NYC

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greg,

To piggyback off of what tpantano was saying, its always a good idea to figure out what you want and what you need. Theres no sense spending extra money on gear that won't be fully utilized or needed.

I really think before you buy anything else - soundcard, launchpad, apc, etc. - you download and trial Ableton. You can essentially use the entire program before you buy - just can't save. But that will give you an idea if its something you want to continue exploring, or if you want to stick with straight hardware for looping.

Also - you have a mac. Macs are great in that they have Line In, while most pcs have microphone in. This means that at the moment, you don't exactly need a soundcard. However, you'll still be a bit limited without one, depending on what you're trying to achieve. My macbook is a tad bit old and is low on disk space, so I use Ableton on my Acer laptop - but since it doesn't have line in, I was force to buy a cheap, but useful soundcard - Behringer UCA222. Not the best thing in the market, highly limited, but it gets the job done until I can afford something better.

So, use Ableton first, check out some vids on youtube, etc. You don't want to waste money on software and a controller and then realize that its not for you. And since you just got the R3, you might even want to spend some extra time familiarizing yourself with it before moving on. I'm sure I speak for most people here that GAS (gear acquisition syndrome) can lead to excessive purchasing - and then you realize that you have way more gear than you even need.

Anyway, good luck, and keep the questions coming!
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tpantano
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Joined: 21 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:05 am    Post subject: Re: thank you Reply with quote

As said, you can use the built-in sound card's input, though you can only input a single instrument at a time.

Now, while not exactly a sound card per say, the Alesis MultiMix 8 is a good mixer that works over USB, allowing you to send different instruments/inputs to different tracks in ableton-

http://www.alesis.com/multimix8usb20

Quote:
Is there a smaller version of this with sliders?


Did you look at the Korg NanoKontrol or MicroKontrol?
_________________
Current: MS-20 Mini, Minilogue, SY77
Past: Korg R3, Volca Bass, X50, Mg Slim Phatty, Rld Gaia SH-01, Yamaha TX81Z
Have my freebie granular plug-in: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=192886
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gregbankley



Joined: 27 Mar 2012
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

just all around great advice.

So I am going to try out ableton today and then I will get back .

I didn't notice that the nanokontrol had sliders and such, so that seems great, though it does seem a little flimsy with the mini usb cable.


But you guys are so right, I am a little trigger happy with buying stuff. And I really don't even have the money. I just wanted to sell my looper, use that 150 to get a controller for ableton or another looper. But I am going to try out ableton today..

The nanokontrol is only 60 bucks new which is a good price for me, just not sure if I should get something with a little more room.

Does anyone know what bands like STS9 or lotus, or ratatat, use when they play live? I am guessing ableton in some ways. Just confused how I would loop stuff when I play my r3 without having a looper at my feet, wouldn't i need to stop and click the nanokontrol? How Do I get around this as a live band?

But i will check out ableton. thanks again
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tpantano
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Joined: 21 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's something you'll find about artists like Ratatat, Nine Inch Nails, etc- they use everything and anything they can get their hands on. Ratatat specifically uses a ton of synth and effect modules, for various purposes, with different loopers to accomplish different techniques.

But also, remember- Ratatat in the studio ≠ Ratatat live.
_________________
Current: MS-20 Mini, Minilogue, SY77
Past: Korg R3, Volca Bass, X50, Mg Slim Phatty, Rld Gaia SH-01, Yamaha TX81Z
Have my freebie granular plug-in: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=192886
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gregbankley



Joined: 27 Mar 2012
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Totally tpantano,

I could definitely see those bands using a lot of loopers.

So could ableton be set up where you can loop stuff at your feet? Is there a pedal looper for ableton?

I plan to have a live drummer so I wouldn't really need that aspect of ableton, the electronic drums, quite yet. I just want to be able to loop my r3 if I play a bass line on that, or be able to loop something on my guitar or if someone else is playing guitar. You know?

Ableton seems more for DJing.. Maybe this brings me back to thinking about the kp3 again? What are some other good loopers out there, hardware, that have access to individual loops that you record, with their volume, (having sliders or knobs, being able to turn off an individual loop while still playing)
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