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Need help finding/picking a looper.
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tpantano
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Joined: 21 Oct 2009
Posts: 1384

PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you're mixing up Music Production/Performance and DJing. I've never seen a DJ use Live; Most DJs use software like Traktor Pro, and some of the cheaper ones use Virtual DJ. But Live would be very inconvenient for DJs; its purpose is to manipulate live audio, not to work with two song tracks and transition between them. Rather, it's meant for the musical performer like Deadmau5.

If you can find any pedal that can transmit MIDI messages, you can use it with Ableton. In Ableton, you simply set up a project where you assign the pedals MIDI CC numbers to do whatever task you wish.
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gregbankley



Joined: 27 Mar 2012
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually have produced some music and done some live DJing, so I know the difference, I just haven't played in a live band with looping. But i do get what your saying. I have used ableton to DJ though, but more importantly I feel like it may be difficult to get ableton set up so I can play guitar/keyboad and have a loop pedal at my feet (like the jam man). MIDI loopers didn't seem so common. I still haven't got a chance to download the ableton trial, so I will do that, and maybe I will think again about a novation pad or nanokontrol.. Besides having a loop pedal , how does the looping work with say the nanokontrol? do you tap a button like you tap a loop pedal?

I had the recent thought of the RC50
NOw this is probably too expensive so maybe in the future, but is there a smaller version of this? It seems to have total control over individual loops with sliders and faders, but I could be wrong.

Something like this would be perfect I just can't afford it. Should I be posting these quesitons in another section? Would I get more answers somewhere else?
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DaniH
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Joined: 14 Sep 2010
Posts: 248
Location: Tampa

PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tpantano wrote:
I've never seen a DJ use Live


I've seen a bunch of them use Live to "dj" here in Tampa.
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gregbankley



Joined: 27 Mar 2012
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah definitely a lot of DJS use LIVe. BUT,

Is there something like the RC50 (looper at your feet with access to sliders and knobs for lowering individual loops volumes), but not as expensive and fancy?

I found a deal for a new one for 350, I was thinking about it. But before I even think about that I want to hear some opinions
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DaniH
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not use live. I did not like it so I cannot say. I'm sure any midi controller would suffice.
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tpantano
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Joined: 21 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gregbankley wrote:
Besides having a loop pedal , how does the looping work with say the nanokontrol? do you tap a button like you tap a loop pedal?

Something that needs to be understood is that with the nanokontrol, microkontrol, or essentially any other MIDI-only controller is that the looping functionality is not within them. They don't do any looping at all. Rather, you assign their various knobs and buttons in a program like Ableton to do something. You can make the sliders control effect parameters and buttons control volume for all it matters.
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Have my freebie granular plug-in: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=192886
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Control
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Joined: 01 Oct 2010
Posts: 66

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I pretty much do exactly what you are trying to achieve.
I've spent a lot of time and money on trying to get the best set up for what you're trying to do.

I'll try and give ya some advice here by explaining my set up, because i think i know exactly what you are trying to do here:



In my basement i have the following looper setup

Synths
- MicroKorg.
- Korg R3.

Looper / Effects
- KP3.
- Kaossilator Pro.
- PC with Ableton.

MIDI controllers:
- Maudio Axiom.
- Behringer FCB1010.

Mixer:
Mackie ProFX8

Soundcard:
Maudio Audiophile
Maudio Connectiv


here is an older pic.. doesn't show all the equipment listed, but you can get the idea:


Now, you don't need all this to loop obviously. But this seems like the type of setup you are talking about. I'll try and tell you the ins and outs of the hardware.



Hardware looping:


KP3:

This thing is awesome for looping, however you are stuck to small loops (16 beats) and trust me, If you are planning on doing a song using 1 kp3 as your looper, you are going to have major issues with having any diversity in your tune. You will be limited to 4 loops with a max of 16 beats.

Upside: Easy to use, awesome effects, your loops stay in time if you turn them off. Basically they just get muted and continue playing without being heard (this could be good or bad depending on what you want to do. I think for your case, you want the loops to always be in sync)

Downside: Limit to 4 loops, Limit to 16 beats (8 if you go under 90bpm), VERY hard to use while playing an instrument unless you have an external controller.

Kaossilator Pro:

Upside: Easy to use, Cool vocoder, Synths, loops are able to be added to while they are playing without starting a new loop bank, Loops are triggered by a bank press and start from the start point (i.e. not continuous like the KP3)

Downside: Limit to 4 loops, Limit to 16 beats, hard to use when playing other instruments.



Software Looping

Ableton Live 8:

Upside:
It can loop in various ways (like the KP3 or the KPRO), It can have an unlimited loop length, You can use a sequencer for loops, VERY robust software.. this thing can do a LOT

Downside:
You will need an ASIO soundcard to do what you want to do. You can get them anywhere from $75 -- thousands. A MIDI interface will be needed for you to do looping unless you want to try and use your pc and play at the same time. The software is pretty robust and can be confusing for first time users.



MIDI Controllers:

FCB1010 -- THIS THING IS A MUST IF YOU WANT TO PLAY AND RECORD AT ONCE

This midi controller can be programmed to send a signal to the KP3, KPRO, or Ableton so you can Start playing or recording a loop with your foot. Take in to consideration that you can NOT midi map the "Sample" button on your KP3 or KPRO, only the banks a-d. So, you will always need to press the Sample button with your hand first.


MIXER:
This isn't necessarily needed, however you will need a lot of inputs for your live instruments so i would HIGHLY recommend you picking one up.








Again, this isn't a be all end all, and trust me, my set up has it's limitations too. I have been looking for more hardware loopers myself such as the one mentioned earlier SP-404.

Hopefully this helps. If you have any questions, please ask away.
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neblogas



Joined: 13 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:09 am    Post subject: Setup Reply with quote

Thanks for your post. I am so new to all of this. I have a KORG R3, will soon get the Kaoss Pad KP3, and am interested in the Mackie ProFX8, but was wondering if it works with Ableton Live. I want some audio interface that will allow me to work on and off the computer.

The Mackie ProFX8 does not have midi inputs and I am wondering if that will limit what I can do with Ableton Live. I was wondering because the R3 and KP3 have both 1/4" and midi outputs.

Also, do you need to have two types of audio interface; one with all the inputs going into your computer, and another going from your computer to the monitors? For example, let's say that I have all my equipment going through the Mackie ProFX8 and out to the computer for manipulation. Then, does it come back into the mixer and out to the monitors? Thanks for any help guys or girls.
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Control
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Joined: 01 Oct 2010
Posts: 66

PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Setup Reply with quote

neblogas wrote:
Thanks for your post. I am so new to all of this. I have a KORG R3, will soon get the Kaoss Pad KP3, and am interested in the Mackie ProFX8, but was wondering if it works with Ableton Live. I want some audio interface that will allow me to work on and off the computer.

The Mackie ProFX8 does not have midi inputs and I am wondering if that will limit what I can do with Ableton Live. I was wondering because the R3 and KP3 have both 1/4" and midi outputs.

Also, do you need to have two types of audio interface; one with all the inputs going into your computer, and another going from your computer to the monitors? For example, let's say that I have all my equipment going through the Mackie ProFX8 and out to the computer for manipulation. Then, does it come back into the mixer and out to the monitors? Thanks for any help guys or girls.



The ProFX8 doesn't have midi, but it does have a USB connection which can function the same way. I honestly haven't used the mixer to control Ableton yet so i can't speak on how well it functions with that, but i would assume it is good Smile

I use 2 audio interfaces for my computer:

Maudio - Connectiv for my turntables and i also plug a guitar in to it for use with guitar rig.

Maudio Audiophile which is the last thing i put my equipment in to. The output of this card goes to the monitors.

My wiring goes like this:

Live Instruments -- > Mixer
Virtual Instruments and Effects out of Connectiv -- > Mixer

Mixer -- > KP3 -- > Maudio Audiophile --> Monitors
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foodeater



Joined: 23 Sep 2010
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's definitely a love it or hate it thing and personally I love the octatrack. Razz I don't think there is a better hardware looper. Expensive, yeah, but it saved me from having to upgrade my laptop, which I can now use more as an effects rack or occasional synth for live use and a mixer in the studio.

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