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DrpC
Junior Member
Joined: 18 Dec 2011
Posts: 58
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 Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 1:03 pm Post subject: I just want to be able to load this WITHOUT over writing!!! |
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Yikes,... 
Can we figure out a way to load this stuff without worrying about
over writing existing banks WITHOUT using external tools or brain waves 
Quote:
If you select U‐AA through U‐GG as the To parameter, the Combinations
will not be loaded because banks U‐AA through U‐GG do not exist in
Combination mode. In this case, do the following:
a. Go to the Disk Load page.
b. Select the file EXs11.PCG.
c. Press the Open button.
d. Select the Combinations folder.
e. Press the Open button.
f. Press the Load button.
g. In the To parameter, select the Combination bank to overwrite.
h. Press OK.
Next, youʹll need to reassign the Program Bank location for this
Combination bank.
i. Press the front panel GLOBAL button to enter Global mode.
j. Go to the Global P0: Basic Setup–Basic Setup page.
k. Select “Change all bank references” from the Page menu command.
A dialog box appears.
l. Enable the check‐box labeled Combination.
m. In the U‐G parameter, select the bank location from step 3 “Loading
the Programs and Combinations into a different bank,” above; for
example, U‐G U‐A.
Huh, okay - time for a time out. 
Just want to try these out first to see if I like them, but this is allot of work just to get a first listen in.
Wow, help... |
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DocBambs
Full Member
Joined: 30 Sep 2011
Posts: 137
Location: UK - Midlands
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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I was very impressed by the Youtube clip of the "strad part 1" so I showed my wife...
"What do you think?"
"It's OK, I suppose..."
"Don't you think it's a good violin sound?"
"Oh... it's meant to be a violin is it! Glad you told me."
Maybe I've just heard so many terrible solo violin sounds on keyboards that a barely identifiable one sounded amazing to me out of pure exasperation!
DB |
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DennyC
Platinum Member
Joined: 13 Dec 2008
Posts: 684
Location: Tucson, Az
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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Doc, I love it. Wives are purveyors of reality. There it is, one person's opinion, no candy coating...her unvarnished truth. 
_________________
Oasys 76, Kronos 61, Roland VP 550, Wavestation A/D |
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cello
Platinum Member
Joined: 11 Jun 2009
Posts: 2108
Location: Glasgow, UK
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| DennyC wrote: | | Doc, I love it. Wives are purveyors of reality. There it is, one person's opinion, no candy coating...her unvarnished truth. |
LOL - ain't that the truth; try being married to a pro cellist... I've only ever fooled her once; and that was with a heavily tweaked Karo cello (part of the KSL), but even then she criticised the bow control! 
_________________
Plugged in: Jupiter-80, V-Synth GTv2, XV5050, SRV330, Symphony Module, ER mk2, D3200, iMS20, iPolysix, Alesis M1 Active Mk2
www.soundcloud.com/ngowans
Repository of Sound |
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michelkeijzers
Platinum Member
Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Posts: 6857
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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Sometimes its better to be used to bad sounds (or having no references), to prevent being to critical.
No jk ... I guess Cello knows as one of the best how a cello should sound.
_________________
Developer of the free PCG file managing application for most Korg workstations: PCG Tools, see http://pcgtools.mkspace.nl |
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popmann
Senior Member
Joined: 24 Sep 2011
Posts: 326
Location: Nashville
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| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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My first impressions...nice programming (unlike the Karo stuff)--the sample content is hit and miss-there are some terribly fake sounds that should never have been included...but, there's also some ensemble gems. Their chamber string "play" really well under fingers.
More as I dig in. The way they used the vector stick is ideal...ive not dissected, but sounds like some mapping of attack, decay, and release...in some combined proportions... |
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NuSkoolTone
Platinum Member
Joined: 19 Mar 2007
Posts: 673
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| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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| popmann wrote: | My first impressions...nice programming (unlike the Karo stuff)--the sample content is hit and miss-there are some terribly fake sounds that should never have been included...but, there's also some ensemble gems. Their chamber string "play" really well under fingers.
More as I dig in. The way they used the vector stick is ideal...ive not dissected, but sounds like some mapping of attack, decay, and release...in some combined proportions... |
I agree with this. I played them side by side a little last night and my impression was this:
Legendary strings: Great programming, very clean samples but often still workstation sounding. Takes up an ABSURD amount of RAM.
Karo: Hardly ANY programming, some samples are great but many have artifacts in them like extra scraping, wind, thumps, etc.. BUT! More soul and more inspiring to play in many instances. For example: The CELLO especially...BUT! (Again) Perhaps they only sampled what's supposed to be the range of the instrument, but when wanting to play certain lines and then all the sudden there's no sound beyond a certain point of the keyboard is a REAL buzzkill. Takes up a very reasonable amount of RAM.
So I'm really torn. They both have their strengths and weaknesses. It's hard to say one's "better". Though looking towards the future, I might choose Karo simply because of the RAM efficiency as LS is simply a pig IMO. I mean that's the smallest they could get it down? I'm just not ready to cap the Kronos at the knees this early in the game because it's almost certain there will be more libraries you'll want to load in the future. With the current RAM spec available, I could see hitting a wall very quickly using something like LS that takes 700+MB of RAM. I just don't think it's good enough to warrant that kind of usage.
Of course I might change my mind and YMMV, but that's my first impression!
_________________
Korg: KRONOS 73, M50-61, 01W/r
Yamaha: Motif XS7, FS1R
Kawai K5000S, Roland JD-990 w/Vintage Synth |
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blinkofanI
Platinum Member
Joined: 17 May 2002
Posts: 762
Location: Quebec, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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Same feeling here. The Karo stuff is not as "clean" but it sounds more realistic. Rather poor programming indeed(do these guys love Delay FX or what?). What's the point of almost all their stereo samples patches modulating Pan with keyboard note position? If you have stereo samples, don't you just pan those hard left and right on an oscillator pair and be done with it?
I don't want to be too hard on those guys as they produced quite a library and i thank them for that(well, i paid them for that). I'm sure it was quite a lot of work.
Blink
_________________
Korg Kronos 73 w/KSL, KCS and VSE1, Z1, MacBookPro Quad i7 running Logic Studio 2, RME Babyface, UA 4-710d, UAD-2 Quad, All Korg Legacy, Komplete 8, Arturia CS-80V& MoogModularV2, Omnisphere, Fender Strat, Gibson LP Classic. |
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popmann
Senior Member
Joined: 24 Sep 2011
Posts: 326
Location: Nashville
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| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah...re:ram...I'm perfectly OK with what it takes if it delivered something that smaller libs don't. Example, my SMALL piece of the VSL collection takes 100gb of drive space and pushes the 32bit (windows at least) limit of 3gb ram buffers. I think prior to going to 64bit, I had some right around 2.8gb of vsl buffers for a "chamber" arrangement.
...but, it got transitions from/to every note within an octave of every note in each instruments range in order to play the right transition on demand.
I don't hear what this is doing. It doesn't sound like they're even storing multiple articulations--maybe staccato and sustain...and there are artifacts like its not chromatically sampled. What gives? They're very nice sounding keyboard strings, but they sound like a keyboard, still. Incrementally better than say my decade old SRX04 Symphonic Strings in a Roland module. Which would be OK, for what it is, if it didn't make me need to dump all my custom samples out of memory and basically dedicate the thing to strings for the session.
Since I loaded into a non default bank, I wonder if the combi's hold the secrets to unlocking the potential. Something is taking up the resources...I see 8way velocity switched wave sequences...but don't really hear it. RR...is that their wave sequence way of doing round robin for the attacks? Maybe that would explain the usage--if they had 5-10 different samples for each patch'es attack...
I do REALLY wish they would allow more time with the demos. string sections really have to be put into context, IMO, to have the stand or fall. And now, everything sounds better than these, because every bar and half, it fades out, and comes back in--making it hard to really see what it will sound like in a mix. If they would do something like unlock it fully for a day...I'd be able to load Legendary, Karo, Sontina up right along aide VSL and EW and tell which (or all) is what I need. Now, I just feel like cursing this every ten seconds thing. |
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popmann
Senior Member
Joined: 24 Sep 2011
Posts: 326
Location: Nashville
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:28 am Post subject: |
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Legendary's round robin wave sequences have now crashed my otherwise stable Kronos twice in a day of demos. I'm done.
It is an interesting use of wave sequences...I might have to make my own from the VSL chamber strings.
Before the crashes, I found the best combo was using the Karo "chamber strings" with the Legendary "RR staccato Qaurtet" wave sequence. The attacks on Legendary are gorgeous where they're using the round robin sequences...the sustain tone of KARO is nicer. Those small ensembles stacked well together. |
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SeedyLee
Platinum Member
Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 530
Location: Perth, Australia
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:51 am Post subject: |
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| popmann wrote: | Legendary's round robin wave sequences have now crashed my otherwise stable Kronos twice in a day of demos. I'm done.
It is an interesting use of wave sequences...I might have to make my own from the VSL chamber strings.
Before the crashes, I found the best combo was using the Karo "chamber strings" with the Legendary "RR staccato Qaurtet" wave sequence. The attacks on Legendary are gorgeous where they're using the round robin sequences...the sustain tone of KARO is nicer. Those small ensembles stacked well together. |
After some comparison, I've found that I prefer the Karo libraries over the Korg Legendary Strings library.
Whilst the Korg libraries are very well produced and programmed, they lack character and playability. Getting usable expression from them is more difficult than the Karo libraries I've found.
Overall, I find the library to be a marginal improvement to a good ROMpler soundset. Believe it or not, I find the some of the ensemble sounds in my Triton LE, with its 32 MB ROM, to be almost as usable, without the cost and massive RAM requirements.
The use of Wave Sequencing is interesting, especially in that the wave sequences don't seem to trigger different samples: rather, they simply change the tone by tuning down then back up. An interesting technique I may need to look at employing for some of my own programs.
The size of the library is quite massive: 2.2 gb. But the RAM consumption is particularly high as well. I think it consumes around 750 MB! There doesn't seem to be very much disk streaming occuring. There's minimal drive activity whilst sustaining a note compared to say, the German Grand.
I'm not sure whether I will purchase the Karo library, or simply sample some of the VSL strings that come bundled with Kontakt 5. I think I could achieve some fairly good results in 800 MB sampling those libraries!
_________________
Korg Kronos 61, Triton LE 61/Sampling/64MB/4GB SCSI (Sold, sob), MS2000BR, Monotribe, Monotron, NanoKontrol, NanoKeys, Kaossilator II, Roland JV-80, Kawai L1, Casio HT-3000 (Sold, sob), Lexicon MX200, Motu 828 mk3, Presonus FaderPort, Motu MicroLite, Rode NT1-A, Tascam VLX5 Monitors Tascam CD Player, Shure SRH840 Headphones. Shure IEM, Shure SM58, JBL PRX12 monitor wedge. |
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popmann
Senior Member
Joined: 24 Sep 2011
Posts: 326
Location: Nashville
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:26 am Post subject: |
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Yeah...I set the demo to not load anymore. I really think the free Sontina strings with a little programming work fine as a "playable patch" for working up ideas...and between the East West, VSL VIPro2, and LASS, I will have to continue to use software for string work. These are just not good enough for final recording work.
I have settled on the KSL if I decide I do need to augment some "working strings". With a little reprogramming, it has Legendary and their Chambers beat--even for small ensembles. When I got into programming, the fact that the Karo chambers were all mono samples was too limiting. Even though there are some nice samples in the set...it would have to augment the KSL for me--and since you can't choose which sounds in the EX to load (all or nothing)--it's just not worth the extra money and ram usesge for a few additional nice samples. |
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NuSkoolTone
Platinum Member
Joined: 19 Mar 2007
Posts: 673
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:35 am Post subject: |
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| SeedyLee wrote: |
After some comparison, I've found that I prefer the Karo libraries over the Korg Legendary Strings library.
Whilst the Korg libraries are very well produced and programmed, they lack character and playability. Getting usable expression from them is more difficult than the Karo libraries I've found.
Overall, I find the library to be a marginal improvement to a good ROMpler soundset. Believe it or not, I find the some of the ensemble sounds in my Triton LE, with its 32 MB ROM, to be almost as usable, without the cost and massive RAM requirements.
The use of Wave Sequencing is interesting, especially in that the wave sequences don't seem to trigger different samples: rather, they simply change the tone by tuning down then back up. An interesting technique I may need to look at employing for some of my own programs.
The size of the library is quite massive: 2.2 gb. But the RAM consumption is particularly high as well. I think it consumes around 750 MB! There doesn't seem to be very much disk streaming occuring. There's minimal drive activity whilst sustaining a note compared to say, the German Grand.
I'm not sure whether I will purchase the Karo library, or simply sample some of the VSL strings that come bundled with Kontakt 5. I think I could achieve some fairly good results in 800 MB sampling those libraries! |
I'm leaning towards KSL myself. And at 700MB, I have a lot of Akai libraries I can load that may be one notch below Korg LS, but above stock. I can load quite a lot in 700MB! Forgive me for being repetitive, but that RAM requirement is really limiting the appeal of Korg LS. Going with KSL I'd miss some of the nice attack of some patches, special FX (Like gliss, though I wonder if this could be done in Karma to the same effect?) and the seemingly ENDLESS (Why?) tremolo patches of Korg LS, but KSL just seems to "pull you in" more where the Korg LS just sound like an extension of the stock workstation sounds.
I've decided KSL of the Karo is the way to go because some of the IMO most desirable sounds/patches from KUO are duplicated in it. KSC has some nice sounds that sound unique, but I think I could get close enough with KSL and a little tweaking.
I do wonder though, as a finishing touch how come Karo never got thumbnail pictures for their sounds?
_________________
Korg: KRONOS 73, M50-61, 01W/r
Yamaha: Motif XS7, FS1R
Kawai K5000S, Roland JD-990 w/Vintage Synth |
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keekma
Full Member
Joined: 21 Oct 2011
Posts: 154
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:31 am Post subject: |
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| popmann wrote: | Yeah...I set the demo to not load anymore. I really think the free Sontina strings with a little programming work fine as a "playable patch" for working up ideas...and between the East West, VSL VIPro2, and LASS, I will have to continue to use software for string work. These are just not good enough for final recording work.
I have settled on the KSL if I decide I do need to augment some "working strings". With a little reprogramming, it has Legendary and their Chambers beat--even for small ensembles. When I got into programming, the fact that the Karo chambers were all mono samples was too limiting. Even though there are some nice samples in the set...it would have to augment the KSL for me--and since you can't choose which sounds in the EX to load (all or nothing)--it's just not worth the extra money and ram usesge for a few additional nice samples. |
It is possible to load parts of the EX into ram. I have done that with the EX3. Just look in the program you like or want to use, witch samples they use and scroll in diskmode thru the actual samples (go up into the directories) of the EX and load them individually. It is kind of a jop but it can be done. You can save them in a KSC file for loading at startup.
Just want to clear this up.
_________________
Kronos88, M-audio Axiom 61
Former keyboards:
Yamaha s90es, Virus TI snow, Roland xp30, Roland u20, Roland juno 6 |
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Mike Conway
Platinum Member
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 1488
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:21 am Post subject: |
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| NuSkoolTone wrote: |
Perhaps they only sampled what's supposed to be the range of the instrument, but when wanting to play certain lines and then all the sudden there's no sound beyond a certain point of the keyboard is a REAL buzzkill. |
It's almost too bad that KARO stopped distributing the non-streaming libraries, as those allow the user to edit samples/multisamples, etc. I reprogrammed the Low Index Ranges (in KSL & KUO) to solve the "no sound" issue.
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"Unofficial" OASYS DVD |
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