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BasariStudios Platinum Member
Joined: 29 May 2005 Posts: 6099 Location: NYC, USA
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Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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Very simple...the Editor...it dissapeared as it came...i guess people even forgot about it. _________________ Nedim
ASUS P7P55D-E LX LGA, i7 860 LynnField, G.SKILL Ripjaws 12GB, Win7 Pro x64. Cubase 6.5. NI Komplete8 Ultimate. Nomad Factory Total. EWQL: Holywood Strings Gold,
Symphonic Choirs+VOTA, Goliath, Collossus, Gypsy, Symphonic Orchestra Platinum, Silk, StormDrum2, Solo Violin and Spaces. Propellerhead: Reason 6 and Recycle 2.2.
Forest Kingdom. OP-X PRO. Arturia Oberheim SEM V. VSL: Special Edition Vol1 Strings, Special Edition Vol3 Strings and VI Pro. KORG: Kronos, M3, PA3X, MS20.
Novation: Nova 2 and Zero SL MK2. TC Electronics Impakt Twin. UAD 710-TwinFinity. |
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roblof Full Member
Joined: 12 Dec 2008 Posts: 102
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 7:12 am Post subject: |
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| SeedyLee wrote: | That's very interesting, thanks for sharing.
I believe that the progress bar is updated by "the other brain", until the Linux kernel boots. At this point, there is a named pipe (?) at /proc/progress which is used to update the progress bar.
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Could be, but I don't think so.
The actual Kronos Engine is an usb-based Shark/arm based embedded system with its own builtin firmware/ bootloader. I.e. the Shark communicates with Linux via usb. Shark is responsible for the lcd and after my initial quick check, Linux can't control the lcd directly...
As far as I can tell right now the Linux (after boot) is only responsible for taking care of the file system, authentication of EXi's, audio-streaming (from ram and disk) and the usb-stuff and is therefor mostly idling the rest of its time. The actual Kronos is run from Shark.
I'm guessing the workflow is something like this (I'll name the other brain Shark):
Power-on
Boot Shark
Boot Linux
Since Shark boot is quicker than Linux it will wait for Linux to complete. If Linux won't boot within a certain timeout Shark will display "failed to start". However, it will enter a loop to wait for Linux to eventually start
When the Kronos communication software is started in Linux, Shark will communicate with it and initiate a download of the complete Kronos software into the Shark memory.
If my assumption here is correct all samples are loaded into a ram-disk and the rest of the EXi's are stored into another 'disk'. The Shark can now mount these disks via usb and access all the audio.
| Quote: | | What was involved in getting a VGA console up and running? | A monitor and keyboard
Normal pc-boot. I actually went into bios and changed the boot order so that I may do a pxe-boot if I want to.
When boot screen clears - Quickly tap spacebar. This will take you to the Linux boot loader screen.
In my case I changed loglevel to 99 and added 'init=/bin/sh'.
Thats it  |
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Heider Guest
Joined: 17 May 2012 Posts: 102 Location: Wimbledon
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 1:43 pm Post subject: Working on it... |
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Very interesting thread.
I've been working on my Kronos-88 for sometime, I like it, however, I've been desperately wanting to change the set-list (or combi) to not-stop the rhythem when changing from one program to another, otherwise, the keyboard is almost useless and boring when it come to live-performance to work on it's own in a stage.
I tried speaking with Support, but the person there keeps bouncing me back and ignoring my requests to enhance the keyboard, I mean at least make the ENTER key useful when working from a menu similar to EXIT at least!... Seems to be hitting a dead-end.
Now, with my background of machine-coding, here is what I've been doing:
1) I removed the internal HD out, copied it into another HD for testing on another machine, and then returned it back, that went quite well.
2) In a non-destructive way, I have mounted this hard disk onto a virtual machine on my laptop, modified a lot of OS stuff, and now into checking how to access the additional encrypted file-system that is not mounted with the normal scripts.
3) I have extracted the bzImage and looked at the Intel code (seems standard to boot linux all over), not much there, moved on...
Under /etc/mnttab they seems to have removed the shell from booting up, which restricts the CPU to only deal with the keyboard and ignore the OS/shell, which is great for the keyboard. Also they have changed level-3 to only run from the OA.si file which seems to be doing everything to get into the fully/booted mode.
4) Looked into OA.si and modified a lot of it to allow some services via ethernet.
Now: Destructive-way (Please do not do what I am doing, as I cannot be responsible if you damage your system):
5) By default, the /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts contains the if-ethXX, which are set to use DHCP, I modified these to use a static IP.
6) Drilled the buttom (wood base) of my Kronos and fitted an RJ45 socket, which is then connected to the internal motherboard via the Ethernet cable, it looks great now.
7) Booted the system, and now can see the FTP server listening, can't access it yet as i don't know user/pass yet.
8) Tried to alter /etc/shadow, and /etc/passwd files, to add another user (myself), however, doing so, the (SHARK) system is picking this up and stopping the boot-process saying "Incorrect files etc, re-install the system... as such".
9) I tried modifying the vsftpd.conf to make the ANON user starts from "/" rather than the locked-up location, the SHARK is also detecting that these files are changed and therefore preventing the Kronos from booting up.
It seems that the SHARK system is not only mounting, but could possibly be doing a check on the /etc file-system to see what's been changed, if any, then it would not boot. Or perhaps the script is doing this check by itself, sooner or later, I will find out...
10) reverting back the files under /etc (shadow, passwd, vsftpd.conf) all seems to work fine.
11) Yes, the SHARK (as you defined it) looks like a USB device that sucks it's data from the bootable Linux kernel, which is what I am trying to get into to see if I can modify some functions to make my Kronos more useful after giving up requesting this from Korg.
Going back into my non-descructive VM, I can see that the OA.si is only loading up 4 drivers (no more), I added more support for other hardware (such as VM-SCSI, VM-NET etc), and now it looks better.
Theoretically, I should be able to unplug SHARK from Kronos and boot it up from my VM and then take it from there.
At the moment I am stuck trying to unshadow to get the root password out, I am using john at the moment which seems to be taking some time.
I thought about contributing to this thread, as I would like to put 2 heads together to see if there is any room to enhance the Kronos as I do like it, but can't use it yet in live performance due to original design-flows, which are driving me bonkers!
With my time restrictions for working on other stuff, I will continue working on this in a week or two.
Please bear in mind, that I am not trying to harm Korg's business in any way, all I am doing is working to enahce my workstation to use it the way I bought it for, which might in turn boost their sales of the Kronos if it can be enhanced a little more, I am not in any way sharing any code, nor source-files, I am happy to stop digging if Korg are willing to enhance their workstation themselves by listening to all my open support cases, and do something about these enahncement requests that no one seems to care about.
I will come back later in two-three weeks time if I have managed to change something later.
Regards
Heider _________________ Heider Sati |
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roblof Full Member
Joined: 12 Dec 2008 Posts: 102
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 3:20 pm Post subject: Re: Working on it... |
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| Heider wrote: | Very interesting thread.
I've been working on my Kronos-88 for sometime
I will come back later in two-three weeks time if I have managed to change something later.
Regards
Heider |
What's even more interesting is that there seems to be users that are lurking and doing stuff like this w/o telling about it
Come out, come out whoever you are
Oh, great work btw
| Quote: | Tried to alter /etc/shadow, and /etc/passwd files, to add another user (myself), however, doing so, the (SHARK) system is picking this up and stopping the boot-process saying "Incorrect files etc, re-install the system... as such".
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Make a script that copies a new passwd/shadow to etc. However, make that script run with a delay so that the change is made after Kronos checks it  |
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Heider Guest
Joined: 17 May 2012 Posts: 102 Location: Wimbledon
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Roblof,...
Although writing a script sounds like a fantastic idea to me, I'm sure it would work fine on the VM, however, with my experiment with the keyboard today, it seems that all files under the /etc folder are either size-checked or diff-checked by Shark (I think), well, at least I know for sure that shadow, vsftpd.conf, passwd, OA.si, etc is already...
Which leaves to do the work on the VM connected into a USB cable to Shark, I think it's the best way forward.
With the RJ45 port mounted on the bottom of the Kronos, I think I might be doing more, I am thinking of buying a USB+VGA KVM from eBay to share the Shark system between the Kronos and my VM. Who know, the Kronos might run later from DOS or even Windows for a laugh
Anyway, I am about to order something on eBay and wait for it,...
Thanks for the brilliant idea by the way, I think if there's room to implement it (some non-checked existing boot script), then it would be as follows:
1) At startup, copy the original files into /shadow and /passwd (overwrite them with originals).
2) After a while, modify these files with a sleep-script with the ones that contains additional users.
3) Connect and see...
The reason for (1) above is that you don't want to cause the Kronos to work for one time only by copying the changed files after the first boot and then the system fails to load after restarting the Kronos !... Anyway, might try this tomorrow, it's not safe to try it now in front of my kids have to wait...
Cheers,
Heider _________________ Heider Sati |
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roblof Full Member
Joined: 12 Dec 2008 Posts: 102
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Heider wrote: | The reason for (1) above is that you don't want to cause the Kronos to work for one time only by copying the changed files after the first boot and then the system fails to load after restarting the Kronos !... Anyway, might try this tomorrow, it's not safe to try it now in front of my kids have to wait... |
I know what you mean about the kids, I have the same problem
I still thinks that sshd/sftp is the best option in the end.
What about installing an extra disk for experimentation and modify the boot manager to boot from the extra disk in the end instead of using vm's?
Or, as I was thinking, using pxe-boot after changing the boot order in bios. Then the original disk is (more or less) intact but you still have access to all and everything? |
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roblof Full Member
Joined: 12 Dec 2008 Posts: 102
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Heider wrote: | | ...you don't want to cause the Kronos to work for one time only by copying the changed files after the first boot and then the system fails to load after restarting the Kronos ! |
Hmmm, what about if your script mounts a new and modified /etc file system instead, after a sleep.
The way I'm thinking is that the original mount point is restored after a reboot...  |
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SeedyLee Platinum Member

Joined: 13 Sep 2006 Posts: 531 Location: Perth, Australia
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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| roblof wrote: |
The actual Kronos Engine is an usb-based Shark/arm based embedded system with its own builtin firmware/ bootloader. I.e. the Shark communicates with Linux via usb. Shark is responsible for the lcd and after my initial quick check, Linux can't control the lcd directly...
As far as I can tell right now the Linux (after boot) is only responsible for taking care of the file system, authentication of EXi's, audio-streaming (from ram and disk) and the usb-stuff and is therefor mostly idling the rest of its time. The actual Kronos is run from Shark.
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My understanding is quite different: I was under the impression that the ARM subsystem was responsible for providing the LCD Framebuffer, IO with the control surface (A/D for all faders etc), touch screen input etc. The KRONOS Linux kernel has an OMAP Framebuffer module for allowing the Linux applications to display graphics on the LCD.
All the UI and sound generation is performed under Linux on the Atom CPU, as far as I can tell.
Did you actually find any DSPs (e.g. Shark) within the KRONOS?
There's some interesting quotes from Rich and Dan:
| Quote: | An operating system (OS) for a synth sounds complicated. Is the Kronos based on Linux like the OASYS synthesizer?
DP: Yes. As with the OASYS, the main part of the KRONOS runs as a low-level realtime process within a customized installation of Linux. In practical terms, “realtime” means that musical functions such as playing notes take precedence over normal OS activity.
What does the OS do?
DP: That depends on the synth! Many synths still use the same basic paradigm as the Prophet-5: there’s a “host” CPU, generally relatively slow in modern terms, and then there’s the actual audio/synthesis hardware.
In the Kronos, things are organized a little differently. There’s no hardware separation between host and audio. Linux provides basic system services such as the file system, USB, multitasking, memory management, etc. The on-screen UI is a customized environment; we don’t use a Linux windowing system. Audio and MIDI drivers are also custom.
Considering the complex voice allocation and other factors, It’s like a big jigsaw puzzle with irregularly sized and constantly changing pieces, and whenever you play a note we take it apart and put it back together again, instantly, in a different way. Doing all of this with hardware-level latency and without glitching or CPU overs is a significant part of the Kronos system. |
There's some more interesting information at:
http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/pub/a/oreilly/digitalmedia/2005/11/09/inside-the-korg-oasys.html _________________ Korg Kronos 61, Triton LE 61/Sampling/64MB/4GB SCSI (Sold, sob), MS2000BR, Monotribe, Monotron, NanoKontrol, NanoKeys, Kaossilator II, Roland JV-80, Kawai L1, Casio HT-3000 (Sold, sob), Lexicon MX200, Motu 828 mk3, Presonus FaderPort, Motu MicroLite, Rode NT1-A, Tascam VLX5 Monitors Tascam CD Player, Shure SRH840 Headphones. Shure IEM, Shure SM58, JBL PRX12 monitor wedge. |
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JPWC Platinum Member

Joined: 29 Oct 2010 Posts: 555 Location: Bay Area, CA
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know about the editor, but I think this thread lost it's way.  _________________ Kronos-6, Krome, M3, Radias, KingKorg, microKorg, KP-2, KP-3, KO-1, KO-1 PRO, Karma, microX, monotron, monotribe, PadCONTROL, Wavedrum Mini, monotron Duo & Delay, microArranger, M1, Wavestation
Jupiter-80, D50, CS1x, CZ101, DX200, AN200, analogFOUR, MachineDrum, MonoMachine, Motif XF6, Virus Snow, Nord Lead 2, OP-1, BR800, BR80, Digital Performer, MFOS, Tenori-on, QY100, QY70, meeblip se, miniBrute
DP-24, SRM450's, HS-10, 10-3, HS-80 |
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roblof Full Member
Joined: 12 Dec 2008 Posts: 102
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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| JPWC wrote: | I don't know about the editor, but I think this thread lost it's way.  |
Oh, I thought we were talking about how to access the wim-editor in linux
Ok, I'll start a new thread and copy the relevant info into it.
| Quote: | | Did you actually find any DSPs (e.g. Shark) within the KRONOS? |
Ooops, sorry . I'm so used to that the shark-dsp is used everywhere, so I wrote that into my notes instead of the actual TI AM1806 being used. Since the shark and the am1806 are ARM-based I hope that I'm somewhat forgiven.
http://www.ti.com/product/am1806#technicaldocuments
http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/Community_Linux_PSP_for_DA8x/OMAP-L1/AM1x
Can I still name it shark?  |
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roblof Full Member
Joined: 12 Dec 2008 Posts: 102
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tiggie_00 Full Member
Joined: 05 Feb 2012 Posts: 108
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Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| I see you guys thinking how we can change our Kronos.. What you should be thinking is how we can add the Kronos to our current PC.. If we cant replace the CPU to make it 64bit? Why not extend the cables to our current i7 core systems and use our 24" monitors for the display.. Could even replace the main board with a newer one.. Almost reminds me of a monther board thats for a tv pc.. Like I have seen these little boxes that are ment to hook up to your HDTVs.. If I remember its an idea that kinda flopped and Intel found a way to dump them.. HAHA |
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GregC Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002 Posts: 2881 Location: Dublin, (San Francisco Bay Area)
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Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| tiggie_00 wrote: | | I see you guys thinking how we can change our Kronos.. What you should be thinking is how we can add the Kronos to our current PC.. If we cant replace the CPU to make it 64bit? Why not extend the cables to our current i7 core systems and use our 24" monitors for the display.. Could even replace the main board with a newer one.. Almost reminds me of a monther board thats for a tv pc.. Like I have seen these little boxes that are ment to hook up to your HDTVs.. If I remember its an idea that kinda flopped and Intel found a way to dump them.. HAHA |
feel free to do that. Get back to us when done. _________________ Kronos 88.
if you think about it, its all you really need  |
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