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[roblof]

I'm not sure how to ask this question without being missunderstod.

Short version: How do I know what type of synthesis/operators to use for a new sound only existing in my head so far?


Long version:
I'm more a rompler guy that likes to tweak existing patches. Given the fantastic capabilities of the kronos I've decided to dig in a little deaper about sound creation/design.

While reading and checking tutorials I find myself in a position where I can't 'hear' what is needed to create a specific sound.

As an example - I went to an exhibition some years ago about cad and animation. I came to one of the demo guys and I told him that I couldn't understand how to create vector based objects, not to speak of animated ones!

So he challenched me to pick an object to animate and I said a hand, figuring this would be very complex. He then told me a hand isn't very complex and showed me in less than five minutes a nice animated hand!

The thing I came to realize was that he could visualize the different objects that actually builds a hand and connect these objects with links to the perform the animation.

So, what is the key to do the same 'visualizing' when creating a sound from a song you've heard on the radio or one that may only exist in your head and then translate this into a synth type engine/operators?

Does my question even make any sense?

[Sharp]

If we are talking about the different engines in the KRONOS, then it’s a matter of fist knowing what you have to work with to know what you can create. What I mean by that is what sounds they are able to produce.

For example, you can pretty much forget every sound engine except HD-1 if you’re trying to create your favourite trumpet sound.

If you wanted a gorgeous Electric Piano, MOD7 it’s just awesome at this.

MS20 for leads, basses, Sfx.

Poly Six for Pads, leads, basses SFX.

AL-1, this is a very deep sound engine able to do all manner of synth sounds.

Each sound engine also has it’s own tone. So while you might be able to make killer leads in each one, you will get very different results.

So I’d say that if you have an idea in your head, you first need to put a category label on it that you can relate to the different sound engines you have to work with.

I personally tent to gravitate far more towards HD-1 simply because I think there is infinitely more scope working with your own Samples being fed into HD-1 than working with a sound engine that makes you pick from specific waveforms.

One could argue that too now that you can feed PCM into a modelling sound engine.

There’s really no rules, just general cop on really to know what you can and cannot achieve with specific sound engines.

Hope that helps a little.

Regards
Sharp.
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[QuiRobinez]

yes your question makes sense, there isn't a simple answer to this.

It's not a trick like, i hear this sound let's pick an oscillator and raise the odd harmonics and then were done.

It takes a lot of practice to recognise the key elements of a sound. So the key is to create lot's of sounds yourself or use guides to create specific types of sound and remember which key elements were responsible for that kind of sound. (like the snarling pig tutorial) or my tutorial where i create a dance lead which relies on automation of the Pulse Width parameter).

there are a lot of theoretical books available on several areas of sound design, every type of synthesis has it's own approach and guidelines. The easiest to start with is Substractive synthesis. There are also a lot of guides available on the web. There is a thread here at korgforums with some links and youtube videos for that.

So the best approach would be to start with the basics of sounddesign and create a couple of patches. Then eventually you will develop enough experience to create almost any sound you hear or think of.

[cello]

What a great question roblof - and yes, it does make sense! You

Am looking forward to seeing the replies on this thread as whilst I can do some 'visualising' I'm certainly still in the development phase.

What I can grasp is what kind of sound wave I want and certainly the EG. Then there's the 'character' of the sound so things like LFOs and de-tuning (so by definition we need a minimum of two OSC!)

But like you say, like the guy with the hand example, it's knowing which building blocks are most relevant to the desired end result.

What I found useful was to use the polysix on the OASYS - it's by far the easiest building block wise.

When you get up to HD1 there are so many such blocks I admit that I am overwhelmed by the options and frankly don't understand many of them.

I know enough to get the sounds I want to get, which includes say wavestation waves, but to get various things going on with different EGs affecting LFOs differently, as well as different OSC differently, then using the full power of AMS - it's all above me! - and I would like to know as I do get ideas of sounds but my lack of skills stifle any progress

Hence I really look forward to the guys who do know what they're talking about to contribute to this thread; I'm sure we'll learn a great deal!

Thanks for asking the question
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[QuiRobinez]

[RonF]

Its pretty rare that I have an exact sound in my head, and start with an init patch and build that exact sound. For me, anyways, that's not the way it happens. More often I explore and experiment, and as I go along... I delight my ears with surprise experimentations that make me think: I need to use THIS in a song!

i remember the "old days" when there was no Internet, and the way you would discover new sounds and inspiring ideas was to purchase a keyboard expansion library (usually a cartridge with 128 whopping patches on it!), or even a new keyboard....rushing home to try all the "presets", which at the time were golden, because it opened your mind to possibilities of the machine. Today things move much more swiftly. We blow through thousands of presets...thinking: I have heard that before. Or: I have heard better. Its rare my mind is blown with fresh sonic material I have never heard before....unless its through the process of exploration. The exciting aspect of synthesis and sound design for me is to recapture that feeling of discovering something cool or new, and being inspired by it.

In those events where I "need" a particular sound or specific instrument patch for a particular purpose....generally I will seek out something close, and then tweak it into something more original, or closer to my imagination, or best suited for the music at hand.

Sure, theres always fundamental old standards that we can build from scratch (lets make a resonant sweeping saw patch with pulse width modulation). But these things are ubiquitous, and fundamental to learning basic synthesis.

But especially with a sonic swiss army knife such as the Kronos....its all about exploration and experimentation. Rather than come up with what's in your head.....put something new in your head by using your ears!
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[MarPabl]

First you need to know your tools, so you can understand when to apply certain synthesis model. This takes time (like anything worth a value)

Start reading those many articles. Everyone applies to Kronos, because you have all the synthesis models available on different synth engines. As you move forward, you'll understand what do you have and then you'll know when to use:
SOS All Synth Secrets
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[QuiRobinez]

[billbaker]

@ OP - Roblof,

"I'm more of a rompler guy"

As others have recommended, tweaking an existing sound is easier, and the Rompler portion of the Kronos is HD1. And per QuiRibinez's advice "look for the characteristics of the sound...".

My approach takes a bit from both of those; I pick a candidate sound from a similar category - a lead patch if I want to make a lead sound - then rather than tweaking that patch I use it as a template for auditioning other waves.

The original patch doesn't have to be an exact match to what I want or close - so I don't spend time looking for just a square wave leads, even if that's what I'm ultimately aiming toward. I'm more interested in the filter shape, ambiance, the way it plays.

I then go in and switch the oscillators to new waves, using the wheel to scroll through a large number of possible sounds -- this is far faster than tweaking multiple parameters on several pages (you can do that later of course if you find something that works).

It is particularly good for generating orchestral sounds like brass and string variations. I've also been very successful making big room-filling ambient pad sounds and leads using this method.


BB
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billbaker

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