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Sharp
Site Admin
Joined: 02 Jan 2002
Posts: 18197
Location: Ireland
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 Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Moderator comments like yours are normal if you make sexist / racist / anti-Semite comments or use denigrating words against others |
It doesn't work like that here at all. Never has, ever. The rules are very simple here.
You are expected to show the same amount of respect for your fellow members as if you were in a room face to face with them.
This simply expectation does a way with so many problems. The main one being typical punks you do find on other forums who hide behind a computer keyboard saying stuff that would get them completely knocked out in the real world.
| Quote: | | So telling openly that Kronos sounds wonderful and has a 90ties style obsolete quirky UI is insulting and not showing respect? |
You forgot the part about the fluffy bunnies and jelly bears hugs. 
Look, we get a lot of posts here every single day where people express their opinion and points easily without being ignorant and rude about it. Just go with the flow.
| Quote: | | Have I to start any posting with a header how wonderful Korg equipment is? Some already do because they fear to hurt the feelings of some fanboys. |
No need to be a smart ass either. We are not like that here at all. I even made the keybed issue and fan sticky topics.
| Quote: | What you mean is not respect but: reverence, admiration, appreciation.
A critical position can never be that of admiration.
So what you say is mainly: We have tabus here. |
Open your eyes and read what I'm saying. It's all very simple.
Regards
Sharp.
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Saxifraga
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Joined: 26 Mar 2012
Posts: 520
Location: Berlin, Germany
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Ok Neo. You are right. |
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runningman67
Platinum Member
Joined: 06 Aug 2011
Posts: 1663
Location: Manchester UK
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Saxifraga wrote: | | Ok Neo. You are right. |
There is no smiley after that comment Saxifraga. Regarding Sharps icon.
There should be mate. Otherwise it comes across as sarcastic. Unless that was your intention.......was it?
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Dany
Senior Member
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 352
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Saxifraga wrote: | | Ok Neo. You are right. |
@Saxifraga: In order to understand what your critics mean, it might be helpful to remember the German saying:
"Der Ton macht die Musik!"
(meaning in English: "It's not what you say, but how you say it.")
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Zeroesque
Senior Member
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Posts: 451
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think it's helpful to continue to drive at someone after they've decided to hold their peace.
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Kronos 61, Kronos2-88, Hammond B3, Baldwin SD-10 |
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Dany
Senior Member
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 352
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Zeroesque wrote: | | I don't think it's helpful to continue to drive at someone after they've decided to hold their peace. |
I first didn't realize that he was serious. But as this seems to be the case, my previous comment wasn't helpful indeed. Sorry...
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Saxifraga
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Joined: 26 Mar 2012
Posts: 520
Location: Berlin, Germany
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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"Nachtreten ist unfair!" is another german saying.
(No! Will not talk about UI precious! Master will kicks us if we do.) |
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blinkofanI
Platinum Member
Joined: 17 May 2002
Posts: 776
Location: Quebec, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:15 am Post subject: |
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I think it more has to do with repetition. I think everybody is entitled to the occasional rant, and often it's justified. It's just that when the same person always come up with what they see as "problems" because it doesn't fit with their imaginary ideal world, i think that's when it starts to bug the community of any forum. I'm sure dedicated people( like in real person who take their work seriously) like Dan at Korg will always appreciate suggestions from users, but if your delivery method is unrespectful, how do you think it will achieve anything? Put yourself in their shoes. How would YOU react?
Blink
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System 1: Korg Z1EX with UA Apollo Twin X and M1 Macbook Air. System 2: Korg Trinity V3 with HDR, DSI Mopho DT, Korg 01/W Pro, Soundcraft NotePad-8FX. |
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Sharp
Site Admin
Joined: 02 Jan 2002
Posts: 18197
Location: Ireland
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:50 am Post subject: |
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| blinkofanI wrote: | I think it more has to do with repetition. I think everybody is entitled to the occasional rant, and often it's justified. It's just that when the same person always come up with what they see as "problems" because it doesn't fit with their imaginary ideal world, i think that's when it starts to bug the community of any forum. I'm sure dedicated people( like in real person who take their work seriously) like Dan at Korg will always appreciate suggestions from users, but if your delivery method is unrespectful, how do you think it will achieve anything? Put yourself in their shoes. How would YOU react?
Blink |
Well said..!!!!
Regards
Sharp. |
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Corgy
Senior Member
Joined: 11 Oct 2012
Posts: 351
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:28 am Post subject: |
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| Sharp wrote: | | Saxifraga wrote: | Korgs programmers need to rewrite the whole system. It´s crap from the 90ties by todays standards and the last machine I bought from any "workstation" producer.  |
It's worse your getting as time goes by.
The KRONOS is the most advanced workstation on the market. You should stop and pause for a moment to consider what you have. I'm actually on a high right now after having a very productive day in the Studio with the KRONOS. The sound, features and flexibility of this instrument is amazing.
I had a very good day to day in fact. Really enjoyed myself and the KRONOS. 
Regards
Sharp. |
Just allow me to tell about my first experience with this issue. I also had during my first days with my Kronos a good time and saved some ideas in sequencer mode. The shock was big, when in disk mode suddenly an error message popped up telling me that there was no way to save my data to disk. First idea - SSD broken or system failure on a new instrument. After half a minute of beeing paralyzed I remembered, that old OS (from the 80ties/90ties) had path limitations and I shortenend the song and audio track file names dramatically. I was happy about successful saving my work and upset by the issue.
IMHO this limitation is not absolutely necessary from a technical point of view but a legacy. If known every body can cope with it. It does not diminish the musical worth of the instrument. But I would very much appreciate not to have to consider this limitation on each project . The path lenght provided is very limited and not up to date. Creating subdirectories at level 2 or 3 below the root is almost provoking to hit the wall if I use understandable text entries for songs, audiofiles etc. |
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Saxifraga
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Joined: 26 Mar 2012
Posts: 520
Location: Berlin, Germany
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Corgy wrote: |
Just allow me to tell about my first experience with this issue. I also had during my first days with my Kronos a good time and saved some ideas in sequencer mode. The shock was big, when in disk mode suddenly an error message popped up telling me that there was no way to save my data to disk. First idea - SSD broken or system failure on a new instrument. After half a minute of beeing paralyzed I remembered, that old OS (from the 80ties/90ties) had path limitations and I shortenend the song and audio track file names dramatically. I was happy about successful saving my work and upset by the issue.
IMHO this limitation is not absolutely necessary from a technical point of view but a legacy. If known every body can cope with it. It does not diminish the musical worth of the instrument. But I would very much appreciate not to have to consider this limitation on each project . The path lenght provided is very limited and not up to date. Creating subdirectories at level 2 or 3 below the root is almost provoking to hit the wall if I use understandable text entries for songs, audiofiles etc. |
Good to hear that you did not loose anything. And thanks for giving me the feeling I am not alone. 
But Sharp is right on at least one point: It´s useless to put pressure on Korg people on this forum because they do what they want. If you paid for a product, that´s it. And maybe the keybed problems did hurt me more then I thought. They gave a big update to the M3 freely with no cost and maybe that also spoiled my expectations.
So I will make some tools on my Mac and iPad and will share them when they are finished. Until then I will drop the issue. Time will tell.
Only a competitor and sales revenue will make an impression on Korg and the others. From the positive reaction and entusiasm about the MS20 mini I take it will be a big success.
I still think the UI/OS is outdated by todays standards. All manufacturers can be thankful that Retro is IN at the moment. No wonder in times of counterproductive austerity. Oh boy. I am negative again. |
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Saxifraga
Guest
Joined: 26 Mar 2012
Posts: 520
Location: Berlin, Germany
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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| blinkofanI wrote: | I think it more has to do with repetition. I think everybody is entitled to the occasional rant, and often it's justified. It's just that when the same person always come up with what they see as "problems" because it doesn't fit with their imaginary ideal world, i think that's when it starts to bug the community of any forum. I'm sure dedicated people( like in real person who take their work seriously) like Dan at Korg will always appreciate suggestions from users, but if your delivery method is unrespectful, how do you think it will achieve anything? Put yourself in their shoes. How would YOU react?
Blink |
1. On the point of repitition you are right.
2. I don´t understand the concept of respect used in this forum. From what Sharp said in that other thread I take it he means "admiration for all Korg has done". (And frankly, the first time I heard that word was from gangster rappers. "respect=fear my fists" is what I learned from them.)
My concept of respect was/is more like "BBC hardtalk". And if I had been in a room with danatkorg or Sharp I would have said the same. I thought in the english speaking world debates with fierce arguments are totaly Ok. Did not know that Sharp just wants everybody to be nice meek friends.
If I am critizised I take a breath, after first denying that anything is wrong.
Then I would look where the other one is maybe right and what ideas or suggestions are usefull. I do expect most people to do the same. I don´t expect them to tell me: "Hey you are right!"
And now I will really drop the topic. |
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Corgy
Senior Member
Joined: 11 Oct 2012
Posts: 351
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Saxifraga wrote: | | Corgy wrote: |
Just allow me to tell about my first experience with this issue. I also had during my first days with my Kronos a good time and saved some ideas in sequencer mode. The shock was big, when in disk mode suddenly an error message popped up telling me that there was no way to save my data to disk. First idea - SSD broken or system failure on a new instrument. After half a minute of beeing paralyzed I remembered, that old OS (from the 80ties/90ties) had path limitations and I shortenend the song and audio track file names dramatically. I was happy about successful saving my work and upset by the issue.
IMHO this limitation is not absolutely necessary from a technical point of view but a legacy. If known every body can cope with it. It does not diminish the musical worth of the instrument. But I would very much appreciate not to have to consider this limitation on each project . The path lenght provided is very limited and not up to date. Creating subdirectories at level 2 or 3 below the root is almost provoking to hit the wall if I use understandable text entries for songs, audiofiles etc. |
Good to hear that you did not loose anything. And thanks for giving me the feeling I am not alone.
But Sharp is right on at least one point: It´s useless to put pressure on Korg people on this forum because they do what they want. If you paid for a product, that´s it. And maybe the keybed problems did hurt me more then I thought. They gave a big update to the M3 freely with no cost and maybe that also spoiled my expectations.
So I will make some tools on my Mac and iPad and will share them when they are finished. Until then I will drop the issue. Time will tell.
Only a competitor and sales revenue will make an impression on Korg and the others. From the positive reaction and entusiasm about the MS20 mini I take it will be a big success.
I still think the UI/OS is outdated by todays standards. All manufacturers can be thankful that Retro is IN at the moment. No wonder in times of counterproductive austerity. Oh boy. I am negative again. |
Hi Saxifraga,
I share your experience about the software and operations concept of the Kronos. I have studied computer science some time ago and think that I can make up a decent statement about GUIs and workflow support. For me it was surprising to experience the difference between my new Kronos and how the most of my soft synths support workflow. The Kronos interface concept is no match for a Zebra, SynthMaster, the Tone2 Synths and most of the NI Synths if it comes down to GUI - and I do not mean the beauty of graphics - I mean clean, easy and effective workflow support.
My belief is that everybody who knows how to program a subtractive or a FM synthesizer in prinziple will have a good learning curve to get familiar with the Kronos way. But I could imagine that a newbee should have more frustration than necessary. |
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Dany
Senior Member
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 352
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Saxifraga wrote: | | "Nachtreten ist unfair!" is another german saying. |
Ja natürlich, deshalb habe ich ja unmittelbar danach eine Entschuldigung nachgeliefert, denn ich hatte zunächst nicht begriffen, dass Du mit "Neo" den Avatar unseres Moderators meinst und ging deshalb zunächst irrtümlich von einer zynischen Bemerkung Deinerseits aus...
Before I've purchased my first OASYS-88, I was used to my Yamaha SY-99 from 1991, which offered full program edit access (and drum effect send edit) in context of a multi and in sequencer mode, while running the sequencer!!! And as the OASYS was my first KORG instrument ever, I've naively assumed that it will offer those features in the year 2008, like the SY-99 did, since I've purchased it in 1991!
I was really shocked to realize later, that the OASYS (nor any other KORG instrument) doesn't offer this crucial features! So I've always had some understanding for your critical points towards the KORG UI and workflow...
But all of this didn't prevent me from buying even a second OASYS-88, because it's so good...
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Saxifraga
Guest
Joined: 26 Mar 2012
Posts: 520
Location: Berlin, Germany
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Dany wrote: | | Saxifraga wrote: | | "Nachtreten ist unfair!" is another german saying. |
Ja natürlich, deshalb habe ich ja unmittelbar danach eine Entschuldigung nachgeliefert, denn ich hatte zunächst nicht begriffen, dass Du mit "Neo" den Avatar unseres Moderators meinst und ging deshalb zunächst irrtümlich von einer zynischen Bemerkung Deinerseits aus...
But all of this didn't prevent me from buying even a second OASYS-88, because it's so good...
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Ein bischen sarkastisch wars auch gedacht, aber nicht zynisch. Neo ist ja der "Erwählte"
Außerdem habe ich Dein zweites Posting übersehen. Ups. Alles ist gut!
Regarding the Oasys / Kronos. It sounds awsome! AL-1 is a hit!
I bought the KRS-54 and EXs-62 recently. I don't know why anyone will buy a MS20 mini. AL-1 sounds so much better and the Kronos Effects are so crisp!
And those old Korg analog synth samples get pushed to new hights with HD-1 engine. So why spend 600,00€ or $ on something we all already have? Even my Little Phatty does not sound better. I wonder if I should sell it.
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|'|'||'|'|'||'|'| / Physis Piano H1 / Roland Fantom G6 + ARX-01 & 02 / M3 61 & EXB-Radias & 256 MB / Arturia vCollection 3 / KLC / Minimonsta / Kawai K5000 S + R / Moog Little Phatty Stage II / Novation Ultranova / Roland JX-305 / TE OP-1 / iPad & microKey 25 & iODock. / Yamaha Rm1x & QY100 / Logic 9 & Mainstage |'|'||'|'|'||'|'| |
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