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Bachus
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 3127
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 Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:43 pm Post subject: No arranger news at NAMM 2015 |
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As expected, no arranger news at NAMM this year.... But then we all have been expecting the PA4x to hit at Musik Messe..
Actually there was no real news at Korg at all, all the new things where allready spoiled in the last few weeks on the interwebs |
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jimsweb
Senior Member
Joined: 19 Jun 2014
Posts: 393
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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now let's expect something big for Musik Messe!
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Life's music - www.myoozic.com |
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Giner
Platinum Member
Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 1347
Location: Alberta
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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So when is Music Messe scheduled for?
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When I nod my head . . . Hit it!
Pa3x-61, Pa1xPro, i30, Micromoog (1975) |
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karmathanever
Platinum Member
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 10404
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:51 am Post subject: |
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15-18 April 2015
http://musik.messefrankfurt.com/frankfurt/en/besucher/willkommen.html
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PA4X-76, Karma, WaveDrum GE, Fantom 8 EX
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## Please stay safe ##
...and play lots of music
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Giner
Platinum Member
Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 1347
Location: Alberta
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:41 am Post subject: |
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Cheers, Pete! 
That's not so bad, then. I was thinking it would be in July or sometime. Doesn't make me feel so bad that I turned down a 3x-76 the other week that was on our local Kijiji at $2900 in anticipation of a new Pa.
I had to remind myself that I'm after a 61 - I'm about done lugging the 1Xpro about on gigs.
With the weak Canadian dollar, though, I have to admit to a certain fear about the price of the 4x. We shall see.
All the best,
Giner
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When I nod my head . . . Hit it!
Pa3x-61, Pa1xPro, i30, Micromoog (1975) |
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Synthesizerplayer
Full Member
Joined: 04 Aug 2012
Posts: 240
Location: ON, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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Well that means that the piggy bank can continue to grow till April 
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karmathanever
Platinum Member
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 10404
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 12:37 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Well that means that the piggy bank can continue to grow till April |
I'm still saving for a piggy bank !!!!
_________________
PA4X-76, Karma, WaveDrum GE, Fantom 8 EX
------------------------------------------------------------------
## Please stay safe ##
...and play lots of music
------------------------------------------------------------------ |
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Fransman
Platinum Member
Joined: 06 Sep 2008
Posts: 1095
Location: Netherlands (PA4X61+PAas. Past: PA3X, PA800, Y PSR-S910, PA500, T KN1000, Y PSR-16)
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| karmathanever wrote: |
I'm still saving for a piggy bank !!!!
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I understand when I see your current gear... 
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Musical grtz, Frans
Play in style.  |
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Marcus2222
Full Member
Joined: 03 Jan 2013
Posts: 237
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 3:58 am Post subject: Re: No arranger news at NAMM 2015 |
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| Bachus wrote: | | As expected, no arranger news at NAMM this year.... But then we all have been expecting the PA4x to hit at Musik Messe.. |
I called Sam Ash and Guitar Center last week to look at a PA900 and was told "they will no longer be displaying any arranger keyboards on the floor, because.......no one is purchasing them!
You can still order them, but you can't try them beforehand. Is it any wonder that no one is purchasing them if you can't audition them first?
Pretty soon Frank and George will be the only two dealers left in the USA for hands-on pre-sales! |
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Fransman
Platinum Member
Joined: 06 Sep 2008
Posts: 1095
Location: Netherlands (PA4X61+PAas. Past: PA3X, PA800, Y PSR-S910, PA500, T KN1000, Y PSR-16)
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:41 am Post subject: Re: No arranger news at NAMM 2015 |
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| Marcus2222 wrote: |
was told "they will no longer be displaying any arranger keyboards on the floor, because.......no one is purchasing them!
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Pretty much the same here in Holland... one of the largest stores in musical instruments in my 'neighbourhood' has exactly 0 (zero) Korg arrangers in store.
Only a few Yamaha's, but not even the new Tyros 5.
I've send them an e-mail to ask if/when the Korg arrangers will be in store again, but they replied 'probably not for a long time'.
Korg is having a serious problem when musicians will not be able to play on an arranger before making the buy.
They're not cheap, you know.
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Musical grtz, Frans
Play in style. |
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karmathanever
Platinum Member
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 10404
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 11:54 am Post subject: |
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Yep!!! Same here in Oz
I had to buy my PA3X-76 and have it shipped - had never tried it or heard it live.
I was lucky!! IT IS AWESOME …. BUT… I will not do that again so maybe I'll never get another PA ????
Pete
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PA4X-76, Karma, WaveDrum GE, Fantom 8 EX
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## Please stay safe ##
...and play lots of music
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Giner
Platinum Member
Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 1347
Location: Alberta
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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I was in our local L&M yesterday. Twentysome keyboards on display, a Tyros 5 and a Pa300 were the only two arrangers. They have had a Pa900 and a Pa3X and both were sold fairly quickly.
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When I nod my head . . . Hit it!
Pa3x-61, Pa1xPro, i30, Micromoog (1975) |
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Dikikeys
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:55 am Post subject: |
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Let's be realistic...
Who buys the most keyboards? Younger players.
Who is looser with their money? Youngsters.
Who are arrangers primarily designed for? Old people. 
Until arrangers start to add the capabilities that younger players want, they are doomed to go the way of the 'home organ' (their predecessor, if you think about it). Bet you didn't see many of those at the music store either, did you? 
Kids want easy loop capabilities, audio loopers, some pads for triggering loops or doing MPC drum things, knobs for twiddling while they play one note on the synth and the arpeggiator plays it all for them!
Arranger require you to actually PLAY! 
Unless arranger manufacturers start to roll some of those 'younger' requirements into arrangers, and voice them and especially 'style' them with a drastic emphasis on newer, younger musics and basically take out ALL the 'oldies' and 'ballroom' styles (don't worry, they can always add them back in if they need them!), no kid is going to be caught dead playing one, let alone BUYING one in a store!
Personally, I think the type is salvageable... There is much about arranger workflow which is MUCH easier for less skilled players to make great music, especially compared to WS's. But when the manufacturers deliberately omit most of the stuff the kids NEED to make music their peers want to listen to, they doom the arranger to 'home organ hell'...
WS's have been crossing over into arranger territory to a small extent, with chord following arpeggiators. You can do some quasi-arranger tricks with these. But they miss most of the good stuff like bass inversion recognition, easy division direction control (for using certain 'arps' as Intros, Fills, Endings etc., all of which need specific instructions to the arp about where it goes AFTER it has played) and the ability for an arp to be running in the background (or to start on any beat of it) for using as 'fills'.
But the lines are starting to blur...
Trouble is, ONLY the WS's are blurring the lines. Arrangers stubbornly refuse to crossover into Arp/Loop country, the crossover is in one direction only. And this is the recipe for guaranteeing a type fails. Ignore the future, and you become history...
An arranger with an audio looper, an arpeggiator, some pads to trigger loops, arps or drum sounds would not be difficult to make. The technology for all those features already exists on other keyboard types. But will anyone actually make it? It looks very unlikely...
The people designing and selling arrangers seem to be an extremely conservative bunch. Take the Roland BK-9. It has an amazingly easy way of syncing audio loops to styles and SMF's. Groundbreaking. Guess how much content for this feature Roland include with it? Guess how many factory styles and demos use the feature?
Yep... ZERO. Nothing.. Nada... Zip....
If this was deliberate, it would be funny. But it isn't. It's incompetence, and unwillingness to embrace the future. And these kinds of people populate the entire arranger industry. They are the same kind of people that thought the home organ would NEVER go out of style, that synths were a fad...
Dodos!  |
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Bachus
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 3127
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| Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Dikikeys wrote: | Let's be realistic...
Who buys the most keyboards? Younger players.
Who is looser with their money? Youngsters.
Who are arrangers primarily designed for? Old people.
Until arrangers start to add the capabilities that younger players want, they are doomed to go the way of the 'home organ' (their predecessor, if you think about it). Bet you didn't see many of those at the music store either, did you?
Kids want easy loop capabilities, audio loopers, some pads for triggering loops or doing MPC drum things, knobs for twiddling while they play one note on the synth and the arpeggiator plays it all for them!
Arranger require you to actually PLAY!
Unless arranger manufacturers start to roll some of those 'younger' requirements into arrangers, and voice them and especially 'style' them with a drastic emphasis on newer, younger musics and basically take out ALL the 'oldies' and 'ballroom' styles (don't worry, they can always add them back in if they need them!), no kid is going to be caught dead playing one, let alone BUYING one in a store!
Personally, I think the type is salvageable... There is much about arranger workflow which is MUCH easier for less skilled players to make great music, especially compared to WS's. But when the manufacturers deliberately omit most of the stuff the kids NEED to make music their peers want to listen to, they doom the arranger to 'home organ hell'...
WS's have been crossing over into arranger territory to a small extent, with chord following arpeggiators. You can do some quasi-arranger tricks with these. But they miss most of the good stuff like bass inversion recognition, easy division direction control (for using certain 'arps' as Intros, Fills, Endings etc., all of which need specific instructions to the arp about where it goes AFTER it has played) and the ability for an arp to be running in the background (or to start on any beat of it) for using as 'fills'.
But the lines are starting to blur...
Trouble is, ONLY the WS's are blurring the lines. Arrangers stubbornly refuse to crossover into Arp/Loop country, the crossover is in one direction only. And this is the recipe for guaranteeing a type fails. Ignore the future, and you become history...
An arranger with an audio looper, an arpeggiator, some pads to trigger loops, arps or drum sounds would not be difficult to make. The technology for all those features already exists on other keyboard types. But will anyone actually make it? It looks very unlikely...
The people designing and selling arrangers seem to be an extremely conservative bunch. Take the Roland BK-9. It has an amazingly easy way of syncing audio loops to styles and SMF's. Groundbreaking. Guess how much content for this feature Roland include with it? Guess how many factory styles and demos use the feature?
Yep... ZERO. Nothing.. Nada... Zip....
If this was deliberate, it would be funny. But it isn't. It's incompetence, and unwillingness to embrace the future. And these kinds of people populate the entire arranger industry. They are the same kind of people that thought the home organ would NEVER go out of style, that synths were a fad...
Dodos! |
The first one to combine ableton/push with an arranger is the winner, i said it time and time again... |
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Elektroman
Full Member
Joined: 13 Jun 2009
Posts: 126
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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Was hoping for an announcement from Korg about a new arr. But since it didn't arrive I am now in the hunt for another pa3x. Cannot wait till Musikmesse.
There were about 4-5 that popped up for sale on local classifieds and eBay, but as soon as Korg wasn't announcing anything new, they were all removed very quickly. Some people were too eager to sell old, and pre-order something new.
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