Korg Forums

[Sam CA]

[pippuzzo]

Hi,

it has been introduced like a piano with arranger and player, not viceversa.
And it does not look at all as a stage product, aimed to pro players.

According to this it looks reasonable the focus on piano and in general keyboard sounds, while keeping the basic arranger and player facilities (from Pa300) to play with as a nice add-on.

The layout seems very focused on a piano, very straightforward, and does not look like the old Pa588 that was pratically a Pa500 with 88 keybed without any change (too much buttons and a complex layout).
Here the layout looks very armonized with the needs of a similar home product.

The first impression is good, hope to have soon the possibility to put hands over to find if the piano sounds (finally an upright available ...) are good and if the whole idea make sense.

Cheers.

[Dikikeys]

I'd be interested, Sam, to hear whether you consider yourself a piano player?

Perhaps you don't have a dog in this race, if you don't..! As someone that DOES play piano (plus organ, synths, accordions, keytars and just about anything else with a keybed!), I can tell you that there is no connection whatsoever between the keybed and what you may need in a keyboard.

WS's seem to understand this. It's not as if, because WS's are (in your opinion) more 'pro', they are ONLY available in 88 note sizes (or 76). No... WS's come in ALL the sizes. They seem to understand that there is no predetermined 'one size fits all' mentality there.

I fail to understand how this wisdom doesn't translate to the arranger world. And I still fail to understand your reasoning. Let's be honest here... If all we arranger players are such no skill slugs, why would we even need a 76? 61 notes, by YOUR reckoning, should be the ONLY size available, right?

Anything else isn't really needed by the vast majority of arranger players, is it?

A piano player needs LESS than a home arranger slug, that's your reasoning? Do you play piano at all?!

[Sam CA]

[Marcus2222]

[Bachus]

[Fransman]

Has there ever been, in the past, a 88 weighted key flagship arranger on the market, that was succesful in terms of selling?
Because, if that was the case, they would probably still make such things, that's my guess.

But maybe, with technology getting better and better and cheaper, it will be possible one day.
_________________
Musical grtz, Frans

Play in style.

[snoitan]

I'm not sure if there's ever been a successful 88-key arranger, but there's been an 88-key piano with high end arranger functions that has sold enough for Yamaha to keep making them. The Clavinova Ensemble series basically has a Tyros built into it.

But I think it is sold as a digital baby grand first and foremost. I'd tend to agree that if there was a big market for 88-key arrangers we'd see more of them. And I'm sure there are many like me who have an 88-key keyboard (in my case a Kronos) to go along with their arranger (in my case a Tyros4).

[Sam CA]

[Giner]

Back in the mists of time Korg's i1 and i2 were 88’s, IIRC. Not sure how they went in sales, though.
_________________
When I nod my head . . . Hit it!
Pa3x-61, Pa1xPro, i30, Micromoog (1975)

[Giner]

Well, lookee here:
http://www.kijiji.ca/v-piano-keyboard/edmonton/korg-i1-workstation/1035395849?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true
_________________
When I nod my head . . . Hit it!
Pa3x-61, Pa1xPro, i30, Micromoog (1975)

[Dikikeys]

Look, don't get me wrong... I'm not trying to put anyone down. I felt though, that that was your point, not mine, Sam. As one who also plays ALL keyboards, I don't understand the reasoning that, if you choose to use an 88 note keybed, your needs are any different whatsoever than if you use a 61 or a 76.

As the girls will tell you, size doesn't matter! It's what you can do with it that counts..!

But the trend to graft the BOTL arranger features onto piano 88's isn't a solely Korg failing. Yamaha and Roland both, when they do make an 88 with arranger features, usually pair it with an inferior arranger. I think this is short-sighted. As I pointed out earlier, the 'conventional wisdom' at Yamaha was that arranger players didn't need a 76. But they were willing to change after decades of 61's. And, lo and behold! The 76 Tyros5 is doing VERY well, thank you!

It's all too easy to say a MOTL or TOTL arranger with an 88 keybed will never work, because one doesn't exist to prove you wrong! But if someone DID step up and make one, perhaps your assumptions would turn out as wrong as Yamaha's used to be...

Yamaha's Clavinova line, and Roland's high end digital pianos show that there is a sizable market for VERY expensive digital 88's. So, the money is there. It just strikes me as absurd that, if you have the money for a $5000+ digital piano, you don't also have the money to have at LEAST the MOTL arranger features in it!

Yamaha's 76 success with the T5 shows that market research isn't the be all and end all of certainty. The latest generation of arrangers has upped the realism and authenticity of auto-accompaniment, and perhaps it has got good enough that discerning pianists would be more impressed (I presume that they failed in the past, understandably) and willing to have these features in their TOTL pianos.

I understand that, from the gigging pro's perspective, the weight can be a factor (and size), but this Korg is not TOO heavy (or big). But, as you realize, a VERY sizable number of arranger users are the same demographic that buys expensive home pianos. All they want is a GREAT piano and a GREAT arranger. It seems an opportunity is being missed assuming that, if they want a great piano, they only want a so-so arranger. The money IS there...

[karmathanever]

It will be interesting to see how the Havian goes.

About 16 years ago, we actually could attend local Korg roadshows - new product demos etc - it is how I got to hear a real live i30.
Since then, NOTHING. There are no roadshows from Korg distributors here - all left to the retailers I think.
Retailers here know VERY little about Korg arrangers (and arrangers in general) - the only really outstanding arranger demos I can get locally is from one retailer who is a big big big Yamaha reseller (all instruments) - the owner there eats, sleeps and drinks Yamaha and really knows the T5 very well. He has Korg PA3xs now and has asked me a few times about its features. All the other retailers are basically "…..if you want one, we can order it in…." - definitely not conducive to Korg arranger sales.

I doubt I will ever see a PA4X (I never saw a PA2X/PA800 either) - this will most likely mean I will not buy one. I'll read all the reviews and watch these forums but I am NOT buying before trying ever again - my purchase of a PA2XPro was a mistake in that regard.

Having said that, local guys know all about the Krome, Kronos etc and have them in stock - arrangers are MOTL Yamahas and Casios (Roland if you're lucky!!)

I envy you guys in the US being able to pick and choose and try plus get refund opportunities and a warranty longer that 12 months!!!!

Sorry - not whinging - this is just how it is - nothing I can do except get on a plane to USA and check out the music stores

OK - I'll backtrack and say that I still may end up with the new PA(4) but it will take a lot of convincing first - so please, everyone buy one and tell me what it's like

Pete
_________________
PA4X-76, Karma, WaveDrum GE, Fantom 8 EX
------------------------------------------------------------------
## Please stay safe ##
...and play lots of music
------------------------------------------------------------------

[Dikikeys]

I think the Europeans are the people to be envious of, Karma..! There isn't a single store within 200 miles of my area that carries a decent selection of arrangers. If any at all (few do, unless the BOTL 'toy' ones).

And US law is far worse when it comes to warranties. You usually get 90 days labor, 1 year parts for MI stuff, not the year plus labor that the EU gets as a rule. There are exceptions, but on the whole, as with all other things in the US, Big Business gets the breaks, not the consumer. I was lucky with my G70, having a big problem just inside of one year after purchase, and because I bought it from the overpriced Contemporary Keyboards dealer (Mom and Pop piano dealers and organs stores) rather than the Musical Instruments division dealers (your usual discount music stores), I got a full year warranty rather than the 90 days the MI stores have on many of their Roland products. Good job too!

I don't believe there has EVER been an arranger clinic in my area in recorded history... perhaps back before writing was invented, but nothing more recent!

It looks like no PA4X at 'Messe... Perhaps this will give those aching to change a few more months to learn a few more things the arranger they already have can do that they haven't tried yet!

[advid]

..do you think Korg 'might' bring out a PA900 version with mic and harmony ?

Pity it's only got ONE pedal connector (Damper) .. My PA900's got 2 ...the second can be assigned (I use it for on/off harmony).. If the Havian had 2 inputs I'd buy one tomorrow.... I'm a 'old' piano player....
_________________
Korg PA900 - Yamaha Tyros 4
: HK Nano 300 (stereo) PA system