Korg Forums

[NuSkoolTone]

I'm looking for a VA/EDM synth (preferably with vocoder) to compliment my Kronos. Looking around the KK seemed like a possibility and theoretically sounded like it had a lot of potential and fun to play. Though what I HEARD gives me pause.

Strictly listening on demos, and paying casually once or twice in the store, this is what I'm seeing/hearing regarding the KK:

First the Negatives:

1.) While the filter behavior is nice and smooth, the timbres are really NOTHING like the Vintage synths they emulate. Yeah "styled" after or whatever buzzword you want to use, but if it doesn't actually SOUND like it why bother calling it a Moog, OB, 303, etc... type filter?

2.) It can sound "Fat", but to me the textures are more workstation sounding (and Narrow) than one of the big dog VAs (Like Solaris, or even the Blofeld) and just doesn't even COMPARE to RAs like the new prophet-6 (Again more expensive, but I'm looking for sound and features more than price first but want to be realistic too)

3.) The Vocoder sounds like it's not that great either. Serviceable and better than my Kronos, but not necessarily better than my 2008 Motif XS 16 band. It's just "average".

4.) What is UP with that tiny screen? Are we partying like it's 1989? That looks like a menu diving, oceanic expedition! Though maybe with the Knobs it's been done well and isn't so bad?

5.) No Combis, and only Dual Timbral. Only 24 voice polyphony. At 3 Osc per voice I assume, maybe not too bad. With only Dual timbral you have 12 voice, which when not using sustain Pedal is fine I guess. Though if I'm going to have a dedicated synth for this purpose I want ridiculous fatness and texture with CHARACTER! If it's not much better than my Kronos, little point to it.

6.) No Aftertouch. Though this is the "Norm" and a bit too often these days IMO.

7.) Only 100 user programs. SERIOUSLY? This could be a deal breaker!

8.) Depreciates badly? Many forum complaints about this.

Positives:

1.) It's one of the few (Only?) VAs with a FULL SIZE 61 key keyboard and a "decent" Vocoder. If Novation had full keybeds, I'd also be looking at them. The MiniNova just sounds killer, but it's not enough power (or keys) for me.

2.) It's fairly cheap and it's light.

3.) "Analog" Distortion. Though I'm a bit reserved on plate starved tube distortion that's usually just for show.

4.) Lots of big knobs. Is it enough? What about real-time performance?

5.)Unison Mode, but quickly limited by 24 voice polyphony.

6.)Vocoder is always available at a button press or so it seems.

7.) Adjustable key response could make a great organ controller in shallow?

So am I missing anything? Now that you guys have had these awhile what do you think? I see many posters with glowing reviews now thinking about selling.

Any other VA/EDM suitable power synths with 61 keys and Vocoder you guys would recommend? I guess something that "Beats my Kronos" is a tall order! Not sure why, but seems 49 (37!??? WHY?) keys is also popular. Cool for lead I suppose, but not full synth parts IMO.

In a different direction was also contemplating:
-V-Synth. There are soundsets for this that sound HUGE! Though I read the original is best but to use the Vocoder simultaneously it has to be the GT and it's a basket case with the Tone System.

I looked at:
Novation: No
Waldorf: No (The Blofeld would be a contender if it had a good vocoder! Even with the 49 keys)
Akai: No
Roland: Maybe the FA-06? Has Vocoder and SuperNatural Synths. Not very Knobby though. Wasn't really looking for another workstation.
Yamaha: No
Arturia: No
Casio: No. Was almost interesting though with their XW boards.
Access Virus TI2: Maybe? I read it has a vocoder, but as it seems no one uses it I'd bet it sucks. Virus is kinda played anyway?
Clavia Nord: Some interest, but no Vocoder. The NL A1 looks real cool, but it's a bit expensive to not get exactly what I want.

So That's kinda where I'm at. It's like everything's a toy targeted to "bedroom musicians". It's a serious drag! I'm itching to get some new gear and I can't find anything that does what I want and I don't think my end game is all that unique!

I thought about maybe a standalone Vocoder to go with a VA synth. Like the Roland Aria VT-3 Looked PERFECT, and then there is NO MIDI on it! Really? *smh*. Does anyone think when they design this stuff anymore?

It's enough to make one ponder the darkside of laptops/receptor and VSTs. Let's hope the hardware industry gets their act together!
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Korg: KRONOS 73, M50-61, 01W/r
Yamaha: Motif XS7, FS1R
Kawai K5000S, Roland JD-990 w/Vintage Synth

[SanderXpander]

I wrote some of my findings in this thread:
www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=584247&highlight=#584247

In general I personally don't think it's great as an EDM synth, or at least it lacks any real stacking for those huge stabs and such you might need live. Kronos is much better at this.
It does really well for the vintage stuff though. I've tried to emulate sounds from my MicroMoog and my 303 clone and got pretty close with each one using the dedicated filter types. The Micro moreso than the 303 - I made a bass sound that I'm sure I could have used interchangeably within the same bassline with nobody the wiser. Can't speak to the accuracy of ALL models because I don't own all those synths but it did pretty well on what I did try.

[jimknopf]

I think the variable filters are the real gem of this synth. They really have some recognizeable, well done characteristics of their analog role models, and are not just gimmicks.

The basic oscillator sound is smooth, but (in standard mode) definitely thinner than that of any analog synth I know. That's probably where people are diappointed when comparing it directly.

You can easily fatten that up with tube saturation (well done in this synth: not just the tube light) and EQ, and then you really get for exampüle somewhat Moog like bass patches if you want, as Sander mentioned. But basically it reminds me of a Telecaster among guitar sounds in comparison to Gibsons: apart from the relatively thin but smooth clean stock sound, only the connection with amplification makes the whole sound. Same with the KK: it can sound really nice on loud amps.

I think it's definitely not suited for EDM, just for some fake EDM sounds: the nastiest sound you get from it is probably some kind of 303 resonant bass. No digital in the face Massive dance sound character, neither for instruments nor FX breaks, not even ARP like dry bite. This synth is basically smooth up to warm distorted, in a pleasant way, but you have to be be aware what it is. Some added waveforms to not change that fundamentally.
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Kronos 73 - Moog Voyager RME - Moog LP TE - Behringer Model D - Prophet 6 - Roland Jupiter Xm - Rhodes Stage 73 Mk I - Elektron Analog Rytm MkII - Roland TR-6s - Cubase 12 Pro + Groove Agent 5

[CowboyNQ]

G'day, have owned one of these for a while now. I use it for live performance only.

My thoughts (for what they're worth) on your observations, since you asked:

Negatives:
1. I'd say some are, some aren't. But with a bit of fiddling you can get very close to those vintage sounds if you can be bothered.
2. At this price point it's the best VA I've heard. Ballsy as hell.
3. I reckon it's great. Use it to do Pink Floyd's "Sheep" and "Dogs". Always get positive response from the Floyd tragics.
4. Agree. It's OK but lots of menu diving required.
5. I see your point here. Doesn't bother me 'cause I only use it for VA synthy stuff so don't need all the extra polyphony. Fat enough for me, though.
6. At this price point, agree with you very much the norm
7. Enough for me but it's not my only 'board
8. I've never bought a keyboard for re-sale value, but again fair point.
9. Keybed not great. (That's my own negative, not yours).

Positives:
1. Yep
2. Yep
3. Nah it's good.
4. Actually I wish there were a few more. Real time performance is good though, very intuitive.
5. It's cool too.
6. Yep
7. Never thought of that but I guess it could. I have reservations about the keybed though.

My view - it does what it does well REALLY well. It's a great VA synth, you can get some amazing noise out of it. I'm super happy with this 'board.

I would never use it stand alone at a gig though. It needs to be supplemented with a good workstation or stage piano.

Hope that helps you! Cheers!

[Scott]

[djcactus]

the menu diving gets brought up a bit too much I would say. If you need to adjust the lfo settings you touch the knob and press page up or down and there you are in the ballpark of where you need to be. This is the case for most things. It's not perfect but a pretty big improvement on the conventional "menu diving" you see in other synths
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2xds-10, ds10+, m01

[SanderXpander]

True, but for a "knobby" VA I personally found it disappointing. Patchmorpher is great though!

[Bald Eagle]

I still think of the KK as more of a stage piano type of instrument than a tweakable VA synth. Load a preset, tweak the FX and play. Sure, you can get pretty deep into the engine if you want to go menu diving but that's not the point of the KK.

It's basically a variation of the RADIAS engine which I really like so it can sound quite nice. Personally, i would have preferred a more knobby control surface and a better keybed (but at least it's not mini keys).

[Vampyre]

I have the KK and I like it but I do think it is priced a little high new should be about $899 new...

I find that the factory presets are not the best but as you would expect they are a good starting point.

Most the of the controls you use are right there and if you need to go deeper their is a setting you should turn on it allows the KK menu to jump to the setting like if you are playing with the LFO you can have the menu jump to those screens so editing is not bad at all and not alot of diving is needed

The onboard effects are great and everything is right there to adjust and tweak. I find this is a strong point on this synth the effects sections can be played like stretching the time delay length as you play notes. You can do lots of effects type tricks by turning the knobs as you play.

Has two mono modes.. trigger and re-trigger so you can really rip leads on this and with 4 osc at once it sounds the part.

The Arp is OK nothing special.

The mod matrix is really deep on this synth and this makes it worth a second look.

Nice filter section.

The DW8000 waveforms are a dead ringer for my real DW8000.

The KK does have 3 different displays screens and those provide a nice touch to the layout. I think the screens are decent for this type of synth it is not a workstation

There is a free Lib manager from korg that runs on your pc.

This is a nice live performance synth and also very light weight to carry around but I use mine in my home studio so weight is not a big deal for me.
All in all a good synth I think anyone would be happy with if they spend some real time on it.

Concerning the V-Synth it is a different beast compared to the KK so not really able to compare. but it would be perfect with the KK.

V-Synth - I would not buy the original version it has limited CPU resources and you have to reboot it into different modes to use the VC1 or VC2 cards and for the price of the VC1 card you could buy a real D50 that sounds better too.

so you can not mix and match like you can with the V-synth GT
The polyphony is better on the V-synth GT and it is like two v-synths in one package.

If you are getting a original v-synth at a good price I say go for it else spend a few more bucks and get the GT with it two v-synth engines and assignable knobs. If you are concerned with resale. it is the rarer of the two v-synths.

[jeremykeys]

I really think it depends on your needs. I like mine and have no intention of selling it. Yeah, more knobs would be nice but then again, who really does all that much live tweaking anyways? Generally I've found that in most cases it's just opening up a filter or adjusting resonance. In all of my years of going to check out bands that had keyboard players I think I may have seen 3 at the very most; and that's being optimistic; working controls on a synth and I'm freaking ancient!

I also have a Kronos so my KK is for me, a nice additional synth that is just that. A synth. I'm not trying to make it sound like anything else so it works for me. Live and in the studio.
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If music is the food of love, play on and play loud!
Gear: Kronos 73, Triton Pro-X, Wavestation EX, Polysix, King Korg, Monotron and Monotron Duo, Minikorg, Moog Grandmother, 1 Roland U-20, Hammond M3, 4 acoustic and 6 electric guitars, 1 Ibanez 5 string bass, a bunch of microphones and other very cool toys, 1 wife and 3 cats!

[Narioso]

Negatives:
7.) Only 100 user programs. SERIOUSLY? This could be a deal breaker!


For me too, so I've done some detective work - and it seems all 300 are writable.

I concluded from:
a) you have a factory reset for location 1-200
Why, unless you can alter them
b) read posters that want to restore an accidental overwrite of default locations
c) librarian save 300 presets in kklib files - why do that unless you can write these back.

Why Korg hide this info by calling only 201-300 user memory is a mystery.

But doing a full factory reset - user location 201-300 are left untouched.
And they 201-300 are empty from start.

But why hide that a simple global setting lifting memory protect allows writing anywhere?

At least that is what my discoveries without hands on found...