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Wishlist continued for the PA
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montatore
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 8:46 pm    Post subject: Wishlist continued for the PA Reply with quote

Right, so I made a review on the PA300 and added a wishlist in a previous post. This is a continuation, and it applies to all PA models, as it basically concerns all of them.


1. We need more than 4 fills. No drummer plays only 4 fills in a song. Even if a lot of songs (and I know them) have only 2 or 3 different sections (verse, chorus, middle eight) the arranger keyboard market should be aware of REPEATS. Verses and choruses are repeated, and if you have only 4 fills you will run out of steam pretty quickly.

More complex songs may have solos, interludes, pre-choruses, or post-choruses. That's a LOT. We need 40 fills, not 4.
The modern arranger keyboard is more geared towards the classic AABA song structure (used mainly in jazz, the Beatles used this structure a lot, as well as other musicians, e.g. Sting). It is also geared towards the classical 'miniature' forms: binary and ternary form. But, not all songs are in binary, ternary, or AABA form. So 4 fills make for a limited life.

2. Same goes for variations. True, you don't need as many as fills are needed, but why 4? Why not 8 , or 12 ?

3. Korg makes the best sequencer on any arranger keyboard. I have closely examined all of them. But there's room for improvement. For example:

-In Backing Sequence mode, I'd like to see a punch in-out feature for the CHORD TRACK. This would allow me to record, say, half piece, and then record the rest at a later time, making it a multi-step process. As it is, once you are out of Backing Sequence, you can only continue to work on the song in Step Backing Sequence or in Multitrack Sequencer modes.

-In Step Backing Sequence, in the 'measure' field, I cannot type the bar where I want to go to. Instead, I have to scroll with the 'measure' arrows at the bottom. A tedious process.

-Still in Step Backing Sequence, I cannot hear my changes. I have to exit into the main Sequencer mode to hear the changes. Then to continue working on my composition, I have to re-enter Step Backing Sequence. A tedious process. Being able to hear the changes without exiting Step Backing Sequence would make life a lot easier.

Still, I prefer things as they are to a computer. I hate computers. Been using them for over a decade for music, bought lots of expensive software, but computers aren't real musical instruments. The Korg PA arranger is a real musical instrument.

I will continue to add to this wishlist as ideas come by. I hope Korg will consider these suggestions, because they make the arrangers with the best sequencer, even though it's not perfect. Every other arranger brand, Yamaha for example, makes basically a toy with a luxury soundset. It has great sounds, but for studio use, the sequencer is a joke, you can't even edit the chords after recording in realtime, which you can do with Korg.

The Korg PA is a true arranger workstation, but I'd like to see it improve Smile
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Nemik
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have perfect arranger for you Smile
Wersi Louvre GS1 1000
http://wersimusic.com/newproducts/louvre/
Sample how you can play:

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montatore
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

my friend, for this money I'd buy myself a Steinway piano Smile

No one needs to spend that crazy money just for the features I mentioned. Korg can do it, if they want to.

As for the video, for that money I'd wish to see someone playing Bach fugues Smile

Are they serious? 52000 dollars for an instrument with 1 gb RAM, an MP3 Player and a cd driver? I have that stuff on my 40 dollars PC Smile
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

montatore wrote:
my friend, for this money I'd buy myself a Steinway piano Smile

No one needs to spend that crazy money just for the features I mentioned.

As for the video, for that money I'd wish to see someone playing Bach fugues Smile

Are they serious? 52000 dollars for an instrument with 1 gb RAM, an MP3 Player and a cd driver? I have that stuff on my 40 dollars PC Smile

Wersi has Open-Architecture-System (OAS) , which can be fully upgrade, is running on Windows OS, you can even replace motherboard with CPU and RAM if you like .
But my point is, how much would cost Korg Arranger if they improve for everybody wish lists. Smile
Korg is best on market as what you pay, what you got, for money you spent has best value with features and sounds.
Many pro musicians if they need something special, they build custom instruments.
As your wish list,...... is many tricks which advanced player using.
With Korg Pa300 you can have up to 8 fills and up to 24 variations, but you need customize your styles and way you play. Wink
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@montatore
check this post, is few useful tricks you use. Wink
http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=92612
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montatore
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Nemik"]
montatore wrote:

But my point is, how much would cost Korg Arranger if they improve for everybody wish lists. Smile
Korg is best on market as what you pay, what you got, for money you spent has best value with features and sounds.


You sound like you make Korg keyboards Laughing

Sorry, you aren't Korg, and you are in no position to decide anything about what's good for other people. We are customers, we have a right to express an opinion about a product. I didn't buy my Korg to play '3 Blind Mice' on Sunday morning, I bought it for studio work. If you have nothing to say about your Korg, great, but don't expect others have to do the same. Smile

As for Wersi, yeah by all means buy their Bontempi organ with that 52k CD driver

Laughing
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karmathanever
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
1. We need more than 4 fills. No drummer plays only 4 fills in a song. Even if a lot of songs (and I know them) have only 2 or 3 different sections (verse, chorus, middle eight) the arranger keyboard market should be aware of REPEATS. Verses and choruses are repeated, and if you have only 4 fills you will run out of steam pretty quickly.

More complex songs may have solos, interludes, pre-choruses, or post-choruses. That's a LOT. We need 40 fills, not 4.
The modern arranger keyboard is more geared towards the classic AABA song structure (used mainly in jazz, the Beatles used this structure a lot, as well as other musicians, e.g. Sting). It is also geared towards the classical 'miniature' forms: binary and ternary form. But, not all songs are in binary, ternary, or AABA form. So 4 fills make for a limited life.

2. Same goes for variations. True, you don't need as many as fills are needed, but why 4? Why not 8 , or 12 ?

3. Korg makes the best sequencer on any arranger keyboard. I have closely examined all of them. But there's room for improvement.


Personally, if points 1 & 2 bothered me, I think the best solution is to get a band together and sell the arranger.
Point 3 - the best that could happen for me is for Korg to bring back the "Backing Sequencer" from the i-series days - this would solve ALL your problems.

Just saying....

Pete Very Happy

PS - Don't wish to offend anyone but that Wersi Louvre GS1 1000 has to be one of the worst keyboards I've heard in a long time.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When you buying instrument is good idea to check description, available feature and compare to others.
If in description was be saying: Future Available Improvements upon User request then I believe was be greatest deal to buy.
Updates is for small correcting existing OS and fixing bugs.
Everybody wish have Arranger with all cool functions, but Korg is not going backwards, they only keep support on their products and trying develop new better next versions.
I'm very happy with my Pa600, has more that I needed, is perfectly fit for me.
Korg made Pa300 and strip from feature so more lower income people can buy and enjoy it, I am so grateful for that.

montatore wrote:
You sound like you make Korg keyboards Laughing

Sorry, you aren't Korg, and you are in no position to decide anything about what's good for other people. We are customers, we have a right to express an opinion about a product. I didn't buy my Korg to play '3 Blind Mice' on Sunday morning, I bought it for studio work. If you have nothing to say about your Korg, great, but don't expect others have to do the same. Very Happy

You right, I'm not Korg, I just trying to help Korg users.
Also I'm very realistic, understand limitation of availability.
Not all can appreciate this, but that's OK. no hard feeling.
Best wishes on your professional studio work. Cool
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

karmathanever wrote:

PS - Don't wish to offend anyone but that Wersi Louvre GS1 1000 has to be one of the worst keyboards I've heard in a long time.


You not offending anyone, I wouldn't pay 1/4 price for Wersi. Very Happy
I just was trying get a point: not demanding to much when you paying lowest price. Wink
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karmathanever
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

+1
Very Happy
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Friends:

With respects to all of you: Wersi SUCKS.-
In my opinion a serius proffesional musicial never use it.-
Although considering the need of a human solo orchestra, i prefer far away Korg Oasys, and absolutly Korg Kronos.-
Please ear and see the greatest keyboardist, what keyboard the use since last 20 yearas ? KRONOS.-
The best keyboardist (at least for me) Mr. Jordan Rudess, is a Korg user and Korg sound designer since las 15 year, these must means something: Korg is the best and powerfull keyboard ever made.-
Long time ago, many piano keyboardist prefers Kurzweil not for it's sound engine, just for Fatar Keybed.- Now the go to Korg Kronos because new RH3 works identically as Fatar.-
So, Korg is unbatible.-
With regards.
Eduardo
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="karmathanever"]
Quote:


Personally, if points 1 & 2 bothered me, I think the best solution is to get a band together and sell the arranger.


A bit like saying: if you bought an orchestral sampling library and it works well but there's a few things that could be improved, why not instead throwing it in the bin, go to live in Vienna, and conduct a real orchestra?
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nemik wrote:
When you buying instrument is good idea to check description, available feature and compare to others.
If in description was be saying: Future Available Improvements upon User request then I believe was be greatest deal to buy.


Man, you got annoying. I am not bother to read anything from you again, I have no time for this type of silly arguments.

I'll just write what I want to write and won't bother to read again someone who had been bitching once. You don't have to agree with what I write, but if you people have nothing to do other than bitching and moaning about all the reasons why I should go with your ideas rather than mine, you'll either have to start your own posts, or you'll have to write your silly bitching for someone else to read, because I won't have time for that.

From now on I'll start adding names to an ignore list, I am already tired of wasting my time answering annoying nonsense. So if I don't reply to some of you, don't be surprised. It means I am not reading what you write, because I think you are an annoyance. Last thing I need is wasting my time with people like that. Thanks but no thanks.

Amen!
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nemik wrote:


I just was trying get a point: not demanding to much when you paying lowest price. Wink


Look, shut up. When I hear people talking nonsense as you do, it gets me mad. Your argument is, seemingly: spend more, and you'll get what you want. And if you don't spend 5000 dollars, shut up and sit quietly in your little corner like a good boy.

Give me a break. I said it before, you aren't Korg. It's beyond me how you go around here like an expert shareholder, playing Gordon Gekko advising people what is worth buying, how much it's worth it, what you should pay, and what you should not pay.

Take a break, pal, you aren't Korg, and my wish list wasn't at all addressed to you.

Have you ever noticed that the sequencer is the same on all PAs, no matter what I pay? If the PA900 had the sequencer I want, I'd buy it on the spot. The cost is not my main prerogative, it's your prejudice that makes you think so,

I didn't buy the PA300 because it was cheap, I bought it because I thought it would fit my needs , and I still think it does. I liked the sounds, I liked the sequencer, I liked the instrument as a whole, AND also it had a very reasonable price.

Just because you or some other suckers are willing to take out a mortgage and spend 5000 dollars on a new keyboard that you will resell in 4 years or less for less than half of what you paid, and be willing to put yourself in more debt every 2 years again, you can't expect me to be as dumb.

AND, what's funny is, often the people who buy the most expensive instruments, are the worst players! I keep witnessing this again and again, and I am glad to say I don't fit in that category at all.

I'll tell you what I think is the max asking price for a professional electronic keyboard: the price of the PA900. What I need is great sounds, and a great sequencer. That's what a keyboard workstation is. I don't care about anything else. Without styles, there's plenty of choice, like the Korg Kronos. It has a professional sequencer. But I want something with the styles too, and here the choice is more limited. If you tell me you'd spend 3 times more than what the PA900 costs ,because of whatever new arranger model, I'd advise you to grab something solid and hit yourself on the head.

Spending more doesn't necessarily mean you get what you want. I know exactly what I want. I like Korg arrangers more than other ones, and so it's only natural that I hope Korg would address the issues I have described.

Don't tell me what to do or what not to do, you aren't talking to a cheap tightwad here, I probably spent more money on musical instruments (and not just keyboards, by the way, as I play several instruments) than all the zillion times you tried to learn more than 4 chords and 3 covers.

As for the Wersi pretentious trash, it was your idea and your spam, I didn't put it there, YOU did, and it was insulting. Bad sound, pretentious and indifferent performance, madly overpriced, and just super pretentious and boring.

Ah, man, don't get me started. I'll better not read again the silly nonsense you or some other people write, again. I know I'll be sorry.

PS. for your information, I have spent dozens and dozens of hours reading manuals and comparing features and specs, from many arrangers, from all the brands, including Wersi, and including some you probably don't even know about, like Charlie Lab or Liontracks.

Hope that sets it, you won't be getting another reply from me, been wasting enough time already.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eduardo_Arg wrote:
Hi Friends:

With respects to all of you: Wersi SUCKS.-
In my opinion a serius proffesional musicial never use it.-
Although considering the need of a human solo orchestra, i prefer far away Korg Oasys, and absolutly Korg Kronos.-
Please ear and see the greatest keyboardist, what keyboard the use since last 20 yearas ? KRONOS.-
The best keyboardist (at least for me) Mr. Jordan Rudess, is a Korg user and Korg sound designer since las 15 year, these must means something: Korg is the best and powerfull keyboard ever made.-
Long time ago, many piano keyboardist prefers Kurzweil not for it's sound engine, just for Fatar Keybed.- Now the go to Korg Kronos because new RH3 works identically as Fatar.-
So, Korg is unbatible.-
With regards.
Eduardo

Hi Eduardo.
You all right Wersi is overprices and only good looking, sounds is much below expatiation for this category.
I never even think to buy something like this, but I like Amadeus sounds in Böhm Emporio organ, hopefully some day gonna get this sounds for Kronos. Wink
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAV0av2SHTg
If anybody know a source this sounds for kronos let me know, I would like to have.
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