Korg Forums

[AntonySharmman]

[Epictetus]

also, the Play VST from Eastwest is a right piece of crap. Incredibly rough, basic and primitive. Can't do a damn thing with it, all you can do is load the sound and pan it and raise or lower the volume.

30 dollars a month? I would not pay 30 dollars a year for Eastwest

I don't like computers, for music....they are no musical instruments. And Eastwest libraries least of all. It's easy to hype them when you hear the demos, but once you put your head down and work, you will find that writing and recording music with that stuff, is like trying to win a cycling championship by riding your cycle on one wheel. An incredibly awkward and unmusical process. I can't write music like that, and even if I can, I cannot do my best.

But give me a real musical instrument, and it's a completely different story.

Korg, Yamaha, Roland....that's what these people make. Real musical instruments. On the surface, these instruments seem behind computers (at least for some acoustic sounds) , but when I consider many other aspects, it's the other way around. I even concluded that I cannot factor in only the sound quality, although it's the most obviously desirable thing.

It's like a car....just because it has a lot of horsepower, doesn't mean it's a good car.
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Korg Pa300. Keyboards I have owned over the years:

Kurzweil K2000, Ensoniq SQ1, Korg Trinity, Roland XP-80, Yamaha Tyros 2
Roland F20, Yamaha MOX
and various others.

[Epictetus]

[SanderXpander]

To each their own. For live use I agree completely with the both of you. For studio work it isn't even a contest though. It's a shame you can't find any respect for "computer nerds" as many of us are trained full time musicians simply using a different tool. I don't have to prove the effectiveness of those tools, when used correctly. Countless movie scores do that for me, regardless of your aversion to computers.

If you don't like Play, you can always use VSL, LASS/Kontakt, Garritan, etc.
It was just an example because it seemed to be a good alternative for the OP who is just starting out.

[EvilDragon]

There are much better orchestral libraries than EW on Kontakt platform.

Myself I'm partial to Spitfire Audio. Their stuff just sounds sublime and is very easy to use too.

[Epictetus]

and I will also add that Eastwest values their customers as much as someone who works in a supermarket values the cans he's stacking on the shelf. Their demos are impressive, I'll admit that. But so is the picture of a BigMac hamburger....and a good picture, good food does not makes

Composers who work with PC sampling libraries don't work with these libraries because they LIKE it, but because it's a compromise that will afford them to offer their work to people who often are not prepared to pay the price it costs to hire seasoned and trained classical or jazz musicians to record the soundtrack they want.

PC sampling libraries are just an ugly compromise, not a musical instrument. But a Korg Kronos or a Yamaha Motif XF is a real musical instrument. This fact cannot be touched by the ugly complexity of a PC and all its ridiculous amount of ridiculous and distracting problems. Even when they work well, which they don't, they still suck.

Keyboard workstations have many compromises too. They aren't perfect. But I'd choose a Motif XF or a Kronos over the latest PC with all the Eastwest libraries, any day. I know which of the two alternatives is going to truly inspire me.
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Korg Pa300. Keyboards I have owned over the years:

Kurzweil K2000, Ensoniq SQ1, Korg Trinity, Roland XP-80, Yamaha Tyros 2
Roland F20, Yamaha MOX
and various others.

[kronoSphere]

[/quote] Epictetus said : I am a composer.

I could not disagree more....I bought 3 libraries from them (bought, not rented). Many sounds are sampled like noobs, for example they are out of tune. I could not use the solo violin in symphony orchestra. It's out of tune. Same about the sax sounds in Goliath. Many other such problems.
All these keyswitches are extremely difficult to learn to use. In 6 years I barely finished 4 pieces with this stuff.

I have heard this theory about how computers are supposedly so powerful and limitless compared to workstations....a million times. And a million more. I never, EVER, found this to be true. I make more music with a good workstation in 8 weeks than I do with this computer crap in 5 years. Tons more music, and good music, not some crap either.

Keyboard workstations are REAL MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS. Computers aren't. And all the stuff supposedly made 'for musicians' on computers, are made by computers nerds, and computer nerds know very little about musical composition, improvisation, music theory, etc.

How could they? They spent all their time programming on computers, I am not surprised they don't know jack about music, at least to any notable degree.

Nothing against computer nerds, but I have never confused them with musicians.

Computers are GREAT for EVERYTHING, except one thing: writing and recording music. Sure, if you are a studio engineer, you are stuck with computers.

I am a musician. I work with notes, scores, theory, harmony, themes. Computers are the antithesis of these things. And I have learned enough about other composers too.....about 90 per cent of them, if you ask them about computers, they will say 'I use it to check my email, and then I get the hell out of there'.

Keyboard workstations are more expensive and you get less for your money, compared to all this computer stuff. On the surface.

My opinion.....a workstation like the Korg Kronos or the Yamaha Motif XF p****s all around computers. You spend more and get less 'value', on the surface, but it works.

And all these people who say how much better is to buy this or that VST or sample library, instead of sounds for your keyboard workstation....I bet 90 per cent of them have never done it themselves. And if they did, they didn't do it a lot and over the long term.

All this VST this and VST that and this and that 1 terabyte sampling library on computer, is mostly an illusion. It's like banks: they give you a credit card and you go 'wow, I can spend up to 5000 dollars'.

As for soundsonline....30 dollars a month? I am not interested even if it were free. Though unfortunately I spent a lot more than 30 dollars. I love these libraries as much as I love my wallpaper peeling off the wall.
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yes absolutely
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trees are going fast.

https://www.lairdeparis.fr

Current Gear : Kronos 88 / Seaboard Rise / Triton Extreme / Sequoia / Motif Rack XS / TC Helicon voicelive rack /Awave 11 / Audio & VSTi plug-ins connected /wide touchscreen / iPad Pro 512.

[SanderXpander]

I'll just say that this is one of the most bizarre discussions I've ever had

EDIT:
No, I'll add more. I own a Kronos. I'm also a full time musician. I earn my living making music. I fully respect and understand the importance of interacting with your instrument. But in the end of the day, you're playing a sampled violin. Striking a key has nothing to do with bowing, and all the nuances you can create with bowing can only be approximated through sampling, using different layers and cleverly combining them. I don't think we disagree here. Obviously it would be much nicer to hire a group of talented players and a studio. But this is not an option for most of us. I've only had the joy for one project and that was just a quartet. The test of the time, we try to get the most realistic result with the tools we have.

The fact is that while you can approximate the sound of a violin or string section by playing and clever use of controllers, you can get even closer to realism using a computer because you simply have more sample layers and more sophisticated editing options available. So many in fact, that it becomes impossible to play them live. Whether or not this is something that you enjoy doing or that kills your inspiration is an entirely separate point. An important one, but separate from the question "how do I get the most realistic string section without hiring one". I admire the passion for the route you've taken but I'm getting a little irritated at your suggestion that workstation orchestral samples are superior to VST based ones when clearly, the rest of the professional world disagrees.

Don't lock on to EW either, they're just an example as their Hollywood Orchestra is pretty well respected and they're a cheap way to get started with this stuff. Certainly more so than the 799 (!) that Kapro wants for their collection (no disrespect to their product). As mentioned, there are many good alternatives. Spitfire, Garritan, VSL, LASS, etc.

[EvilDragon]

[SanderXpander]

Good VST. Although you can't really hear it in isolation and the phone quality is pretty bad. I've honestly never heard a really convincing solo violin but I play with a live violinist pretty often so maybe I'm more critical. I mean it's fine for playing for fun but I wouldn't deliver a track professionally with a VST (or workstation) violin in a prominent spot. String sections are a little easier.

[EvilDragon]

I would, with that library. It's that good. Just IMHO.

[Epictetus]

[kronoSphere]

I must admit that there are sometimes some real "musical" softwares and VSTi who have been made and thought with a real musical aim and not only for computers geeks.

The benefit of a workstation is that we can work with it both with intuition and rapidly
_________________
trees are going fast.

https://www.lairdeparis.fr

Current Gear : Kronos 88 / Seaboard Rise / Triton Extreme / Sequoia / Motif Rack XS / TC Helicon voicelive rack /Awave 11 / Audio & VSTi plug-ins connected /wide touchscreen / iPad Pro 512.

[SanderXpander]

Epictetus, am I understanding correctly then that you mix and master everything on your workstation? That you score to video using a workstation? That you write your parts by hand for your performers to play?

[Epictetus]