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LZ Platinum Member
Joined: 02 May 2007 Posts: 590 Location: St. Louis, MO
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Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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We did the EMF song when it was new. Did the vocal samples with....um....vocals. Why not? Saying you have to have the original samples is like saying you don't sound like Steve Perry, so how can you do journey without sampling him? It's pretty simple....you do your best Andrew dice clay impression. 2 of us did different parts since they overlap a bit. The drummer played the "drum loop". You do know that a drum loop is usually a recording of a drummer actually playing drums, right? It helped that our drummer played electrics and could dial in the sounds. I went through a phase where I started getting samples to make it sound perfect, but if you take that to its conclusion you aren't playing any more. I will still do very prominent single shot effects, but not loops and almost never vocals - the exception being uptown funk. _________________
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Cobra Jet Full Member
Joined: 05 Oct 2008 Posts: 185 Location: California
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Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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LZ wrote: | We did the EMF song when it was new. Did the vocal samples with....um....vocals. Why not? Saying you have to have the original samples is like saying you don't sound like Steve Perry, so how can you do journey without sampling him? It's pretty simple....you do your best Andrew dice clay impression. 2 of us did different parts since they overlap a bit. The drummer played the "drum loop". You do know that a drum loop is usually a recording of a drummer actually playing drums, right? It helped that our drummer played electrics and could dial in the sounds. I went through a phase where I started getting samples to make it sound perfect, but if you take that to its conclusion you aren't playing any more. I will still do very prominent single shot effects, but not loops and almost never vocals - the exception being uptown funk. |
LZ, my point exactly. I’m not sure why they expect me to sample vocals and drums that they can do. The one that really got me going on this whole thing was the “Millennial Whoop” that turned out to be nothing more than a singer singing a normal part in a song. Also, many times when I do try to samples something I get a bunch of other stuff I don’t want that’s part of the recording.
I will say I’ve had a few people here who seem to indicate that they enjoy creating these samples. |
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Cobra Jet Full Member
Joined: 05 Oct 2008 Posts: 185 Location: California
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aron Platinum Member
Joined: 27 Jan 2011 Posts: 1548 Location: Hawaii
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Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 1:54 am Post subject: |
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Yes, I feel your pain. I gave up on this long ago when I realize the artists themselves didn't have to/or want to cover all the sounds. Remember, unless it's a live recording, these parts were layered in the studio. Not everything is needed or should be there live.
Case in point, one of the bands I play in made a 2 or 3 chord song super hard to play by picking out an obscure sequence way in the background and wrote the notes out so I had to sight read it on the gig. I did it, but it sounded stupid. But then I am a guitarist as well, so I pointed out he wasn't playing a ton of parts that was on the record as well.
YES, we can play lots of sounds, but we only have 2 hands. AND it's not like the synth guitar, synth bass, EWI hasn't been invented. Let them play stupid sounds too!
The drummer, guitarist etc... can trigger sounds too. _________________ Korg Kronos, RD-88, Yamaha VL1, Deep Mind 6, Korg Kross, author of unrealBook for iPad. |
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Cobra Jet Full Member
Joined: 05 Oct 2008 Posts: 185 Location: California
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Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 2:17 pm Post subject: Re: Just venting |
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tenohtwo wrote: | Cobra Jet wrote: | Is anyone else in a cover band where other members think it’s no big deal to ask you if you can cover some nonsense part in a new song you are trying to do? I will list below some of the recent requests I’ve received. Please let me know if this is the new norm and I’m just being too sensitive.
Unbelievable by EMF:
Andrew Dice Clay apparently is the one to say Oh at the start of the song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R63gYHIgaB0 |
Just curious, do you use any of the samples or loops from the original?
Eric B. and Rakim - "Paid In Full" (drum loop)
Andrew Dice Clay - A Day At The Beach ("It's unbelievable" from the Mother Goose nursery rhyme, his "ohhh" is probably on the same album)
Hi Tek 3 featuring Ya Kid K - "Spin That Wheel" ("the one" that plays through the downbeat during the chorus (found in the refrain of Wheel, where the lyric is "Ya Kid K is THE ONE").
Black Panthers - "What the f***" (somehow this was never censored from radio, though it is not in the front of the mix)
I know you don't want to be the "special effects guy", but I'm curious how this song currently sounds without the loops and samples that construct a good percentage of the original. I think people would like hearing the original samples, and it would come off sounding like you worked hard on that one.
1002 |
I'm currently working on the Dice Clay part and I'm interested in locating the other one you mentioned “Black Panthers - "What the f***". Can you provide me with a link to that? |
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kbrkr Platinum Member
Joined: 06 Oct 2003 Posts: 804 Location: Savannah, Georgia USA
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Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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What's the difference between accommodating this request and a similar request for the unique sounds in Uptown Funk?
I ALWAYS accommodate as many requests as I can, that is what separates me from other players who do not know or are capable of sampling. That is why I own and use a sampling keyboard. From the Train/Whistle from the intro to Night train to the Vocal Aaahs in Comfortably Numb to the breakdown Jet flyover in Mony Mony, I always try to provide whatever sounds are in the song.
If it's too ridiculous, I find my band mates will self police the requester. _________________ Pa5x, Yamaha Genos, ForeScore |
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aron Platinum Member
Joined: 27 Jan 2011 Posts: 1548 Location: Hawaii
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Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 7:53 am Post subject: |
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Most of the pros use background tracks. Some even carry entire pro tools computers.
Many use other equipment for the background tracks.
Of all the professional players I have played with, none of them have asked for the effects to be played - but again, if the song will fall apart without those sounds - then by all means, play them if the songs don't stand without them. _________________ Korg Kronos, RD-88, Yamaha VL1, Deep Mind 6, Korg Kross, author of unrealBook for iPad. |
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Derek Cook Approved Merchant
Joined: 20 Jul 2014 Posts: 1279 Location: Wales, UK
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Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 9:09 am Post subject: |
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I guess it depends on what you are trying to achieve, who your audience is and (as mentioned above) how much you are getting paid.
I am currently in a Pink Floyd tribute band, where the expectation is that you get as close as possible to Floyd's live sound on the Division Bell tour, because that is what people are paying us to come and see. That includes all the sound effects and at least the solos need to be pretty close. Fortunately Rick Wright was a bit of an improviser anyway who never played the same thing twice, so I have a small amount of leeway!
Effects and certain sounds are either on the Kronos or on backing tracks, depending on how many fingers I have free when they are needed! _________________ Derek Cook - Java Developer
Follow kronos.factory development and submit ideas over at the kronos.factory Trello Board
My Echoes Music Website
My Carreg Ddu Music Website |
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Cobra Jet Full Member
Joined: 05 Oct 2008 Posts: 185 Location: California
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Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for all the different points of view. I agree completely with many of the members here as far as trying to make the songs sound as good as possible and I do work hard to recreate important parts of the songs we are covering. I guess my point was just like anything else it can be taken to an extreme. Trying to find that line can be hard sometimes.
One more question. I find that simply sampling off the original recording can capture other instruments that I would prefer were not on my sample. Is there a trick to reduce or eliminate that from occurring? |
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jeremykeys Platinum Member
Joined: 19 Jun 2011 Posts: 3092 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 12:36 am Post subject: |
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Derek, does your band play "On the Run"? If so, I was wondering where you got the background sounds that go behind the EMS synth sequence part. I have the sequence sound on my Kronos and was just wondering. I thought it might be a cool surprise to throw at my band.
IOn another note but still staying in the "vent" mode. For any of you who read Sound on Sound magazine. Dave Stewart wrote a great article that somewhat applies here. He mentions a story form a music professor who had a student who said he could play a well know piano song. The student then proceeded to press a button on his midi controller. After the first part ended he pressed the next button.
I think that none of us want to be just button pressers! But in some circumstances it is very cool to be able to "pull off" the right sound effect at the right time.
In my country/rock band we do a cover of Journey's Separate Ways. Linda sings it great!
She sounds exactly NOT like Steve Perry! _________________ If music is the food of love, play on and play loud!
Gear: Kronos 73, Triton Pro-X, Wavestation EX, Polysix, King Korg, Monotron and Monotron Duo, Minikorg, Moog Grandmother, 1 Roland U-20, Hammond M3, 4 acoustic and 6 electric guitars, 1 Ibanez 5 string bass, a bunch of microphones and other very cool toys, 1 wife and 3 cats! |
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