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Bachus
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 3126
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 Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 5:05 pm Post subject: Roland CLoud 4.0 |
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Roland Cloud 4.0 is out..
http://keyszone.boards.net/thread/153/roland-cloud-4
They added some new synth models like the Jupiter 9 and the Juno 106...
But also a brandnew bass synth called GRIT, brandnew fro EDM
So basically most instruments they add will be sampled super natural ones..
Like the GRIT, but also the D50, the Aplha Juno1 and Alpha Juno2
Lets see where this gets to for Roland, will we ever see a Virtuall V-synth?
Their biggest issue should be their price, people are still not used paying subscriptions for something they want to own.
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Korg Kronos 2/88 , Genos, Mainstage3 +VSTsu, ipad pro, GSi Gemini, Roland Integra 7, Jupiter Xm, Yamaha motif XS rack, Ketron SD90.
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Bachus
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 3126
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| Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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The Roland Cloud requires an active internet connection..
Pretty much kills the cloud as something you could use on a gig... making it a studio tool only...
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Korg Kronos 2/88 , Genos, Mainstage3 +VSTsu, ipad pro, GSi Gemini, Roland Integra 7, Jupiter Xm, Yamaha motif XS rack, Ketron SD90.
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Kevin Nolan
Approved Merchant
Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 2524
Location: Dublin, Ireland
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| Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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What is Roland Cloud?
I can't figure it out. I signed up - but - there's nothing on the web site.
Is it like Soundcloud, or will it be like EastWest Sample Library Cloud?
Also - is there a suggestion that the Jupiter 8 and Juno 106 Plugouts are going to be made available as VST/AU plugins? I thought I saw a suggestion of that somewhere but can't determine what they're hinting at.
Overall, very confusing (to me). |
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cello
Platinum Member
Joined: 11 Jun 2009
Posts: 2152
Location: Glasgow, UK
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:54 am Post subject: |
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| Kevin Nolan wrote: | What is Roland Cloud?
I can't figure it out. I signed up - but - there's nothing on the web site.
Is it like Soundcloud, or will it be like EastWest Sample Library Cloud?
Also - is there a suggestion that the Jupiter 8 and Juno 106 Plugouts are going to be made available as VST/AU plugins? I thought I saw a suggestion of that somewhere but can't determine what they're hinting at.
Overall, very confusing (to me). |
https://www.rolandcloud.com/instruments shows all the current instruments.
https://www.rolandcloud.com/4-0-release has general info relating to v4 of the Cloud.
Essentially, yes, there are the VSTs you mention however on using one, your licence is checked for currency. No subscription means it doesn't work, active subscription (free or otherwise) means the VST will work. Also if no internet connection at point of licence checking, it won't work.
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Plugged in: Fantom 8, Jupiter-X, Jupiter 80, System-8, JD-XA, V-Synth GTv2, FA-06, SE-02, JU-06A, TR-09, VT-4, Go:Livecast, Rubix44, Shure SM7b, Push2, Ableton 11 Suite, Sibelius, KRK Rokit 5, |
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Kevin Nolan
Approved Merchant
Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 2524
Location: Dublin, Ireland
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| cello wrote: | | Kevin Nolan wrote: | What is Roland Cloud?
I can't figure it out. I signed up - but - there's nothing on the web site.
Is it like Soundcloud, or will it be like EastWest Sample Library Cloud?
Also - is there a suggestion that the Jupiter 8 and Juno 106 Plugouts are going to be made available as VST/AU plugins? I thought I saw a suggestion of that somewhere but can't determine what they're hinting at.
Overall, very confusing (to me). |
https://www.rolandcloud.com/instruments shows all the current instruments.
https://www.rolandcloud.com/4-0-release has general info relating to v4 of the Cloud.
Essentially, yes, there are the VSTs you mention however on using one, your licence is checked for currency. No subscription means it doesn't work, active subscription (free or otherwise) means the VST will work. Also if no internet connection at point of licence checking, it won't work. |
don't mean to be pedantic on this but what you've typed isn't really helpful.
What is roland cloud? Is this for people with System 1/8 devices only?
there'e no explanation of what it is on the web site. Are you saying you have to "top up" by paying money into Roland cloud on a regular basis?
It all comes across as quite dubious to me - like - they're trying to not tell you what it is, and get you to sign up for something you're not clear on - and then try to get money from you.
for example - will it be possible to but AU versions of these plugins for use without having the hardware? And, can you buy them as a one off purchase or do you have to go through Roland cloud and pay a subscription service? And, apart from that, what else is this for?? |
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cello
Platinum Member
Joined: 11 Jun 2009
Posts: 2152
Location: Glasgow, UK
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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It's a cloud-based instrument system. They build instruments, you download them from the cloud into your DAW as VSTs. You pay a monthly subscription to keep using the instruments.
So - you can have a System-8 VST for $19 per month. But you also get the plugouts as well - PROMARS, SH-2, etc. You also get the Jupiter 8 and Juno 106 as separate VSTs. There's also a D-50 (Anthology) and a huge sampled piano (Tera). Roland adds more instruments, you still pay $19.
Pro - growing number of VSTs available for a fixed monthly cost; it will take 6 years to get to the purchase price of a real System-8
Cons - You rent the instruments, never own them. When you use an instance of a downloaded Cloud VST, it checks that you are subscribing. If not (or internet connection fails), it won't let you use the VST. Also, if you revisit a track you did with the VST legitimately as a subscriber, but you no longer subscribe, the track will not play (if midi - fine if 'frozen' to audio track).
Have to be honest, I'm not entirely sure if I'm for it or not. The recurring revenue model is popular (adobe, Microsoft, etc) and has its merits. But at $19 a month I think it's too high. Also there should be a lifetime option for say $300 (as SONAR Platinum did). Version 5 of the Roland Cloud may highlight what they intend to deliver for the $50 per month category - it's going to have to be huge for that kind of money!
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Plugged in: Fantom 8, Jupiter-X, Jupiter 80, System-8, JD-XA, V-Synth GTv2, FA-06, SE-02, JU-06A, TR-09, VT-4, Go:Livecast, Rubix44, Shure SM7b, Push2, Ableton 11 Suite, Sibelius, KRK Rokit 5, |
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Derek Cook
Approved Merchant
Joined: 20 Jul 2014
Posts: 1279
Location: Wales, UK
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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A VST that will not work offline (e.g live on stage) is useless to me, personally.
E.g. If I create a part in a song on a DAW and I then want to play it live - then this subscription model would not let me do that. I might possibly have considered a model where you say had periodically connect to the internet (like once a month) to validate. But not the binary choice given.
My live laptop is disconnected from the internet a week before a gig to stop Windoze 10 from doing any bleeding updates when it feels like it 
I have the Jupiter 8 in Arturia soft synth form, anyway! 
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jimknopf
Platinum Member
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Posts: 3374
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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I think both aspects are utterly anattractive for many musicians:
a) being cloud dependant to that degree is NO alternative to offline independence
b) renting models mean continuous costs, and you always pay for the whole package, not for your choices from it. This way it can easily get more expensive, than you would ever pay for the few instrument plugins you really want and use - and probably would like to own.
230 bucks in ONE year, 460 in two, nearly 700 in three: that's certainly no way I would waste my money, just for using (and not owning) a few plugouts from a single brand. You could instead own an analog synth or some first class VSTis for the same price, if you save for it, or pay at zero interest conditions like you get them nowadays. Both makes more sense than any renting: you only pay for your choice, and you own what you pay for.
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Kronos 73 - Moog Voyager RME - Moog LP TE - Behringer Model D - Prophet 6 - Roland Jupiter Xm - Rhodes Stage 73 Mk I - Elektron Analog Rytm MkII - Roland TR-6s - Cubase 12 Pro + Groove Agent 5 |
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Kevin Nolan
Approved Merchant
Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 2524
Location: Dublin, Ireland
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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| cello wrote: | It's a cloud-based instrument system. They build instruments, you download them from the cloud into your DAW as VSTs. You pay a monthly subscription to keep using the instruments.
So - you can have a System-8 VST for $19 per month. But you also get the plugouts as well - PROMARS, SH-2, etc. You also get the Jupiter 8 and Juno 106 as separate VSTs. There's also a D-50 (Anthology) and a huge sampled piano (Tera). Roland adds more instruments, you still pay $19.
Pro - growing number of VSTs available for a fixed monthly cost; it will take 6 years to get to the purchase price of a real System-8
Cons - You rent the instruments, never own them. When you use an instance of a downloaded Cloud VST, it checks that you are subscribing. If not (or internet connection fails), it won't let you use the VST. Also, if you revisit a track you did with the VST legitimately as a subscriber, but you no longer subscribe, the track will not play (if midi - fine if 'frozen' to audio track).
Have to be honest, I'm not entirely sure if I'm for it or not. The recurring revenue model is popular (adobe, Microsoft, etc) and has its merits. But at $19 a month I think it's too high. Also there should be a lifetime option for say $300 (as SONAR Platinum did). Version 5 of the Roland Cloud may highlight what they intend to deliver for the $50 per month category - it's going to have to be huge for that kind of money! |
You keep saying VST's. Are AU versions available? And - how do you know all this - I've looked over the web site - and the Facebook Page - and I'm struggling to find those explanations (in fact - haven't found them!).
So specific questions (if you can help )"
1. Are AU versions available.
2. Do you need System 1 or System 8 to use these?
3. Can you buy them outright?
4. What does the $19 per month give you - does it give you ALL plugouts - as dedicated plugins (without needing a System 1 or System  ?
have to say - the cost is very high. No doubt there will be loads who go for them, but I absolutely loath this model. If all music software goes this way - we'll all be forking out hundreds of Euro every month for our equivalent setups.
Thanks,
Kevin. |
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Bachus
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 3126
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:42 am Post subject: |
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| jimknopf wrote: | I think both aspects are utterly anattractive for many musicians:
a) being cloud dependant to that degree is NO alternative to offline independence
b) renting models mean continuous costs, and you always pay for the whole package, not for your choices from it. This way it can easily get more expensive, than you would ever pay for the few instrument plugins you really want and use - and probably would like to own.
230 bucks in ONE year, 460 in two, nearly 700 in three: that's certainly no way I would waste my money, just for using (and not owning) a few plugouts from a single brand. You could instead own an analog synth or some first class VSTis for the same price, if you save for it, or pay at zero interest conditions like you get them nowadays. Both makes more sense than any renting: you only pay for your choice, and you own what you pay for. |
Roland Cloud definately is a studio thing...
There is the VST part, running on your PC, but there also is a much higher detailed part running in the cloud... and when you convert a midi track to audio, it uses the much higher part (for example turning the 2GB piano into an 8 TB piano) in the cloud, so your final mix becomes much more detailed..
Thats why its not using midi but the new rainlink protocol.. which is much much more detailed...
But i dont see a reason why to make it totally unfit for gigging, you could have a different type of security
_________________
Korg Kronos 2/88 , Genos, Mainstage3 +VSTsu, ipad pro, GSi Gemini, Roland Integra 7, Jupiter Xm, Yamaha motif XS rack, Ketron SD90.
www.keyszone.boards.net |
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Bachus
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 3126
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:51 am Post subject: |
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| Kevin Nolan wrote: | | cello wrote: | It's a cloud-based instrument system. They build instruments, you download them from the cloud into your DAW as VSTs. You pay a monthly subscription to keep using the instruments.
So - you can have a System-8 VST for $19 per month. But you also get the plugouts as well - PROMARS, SH-2, etc. You also get the Jupiter 8 and Juno 106 as separate VSTs. There's also a D-50 (Anthology) and a huge sampled piano (Tera). Roland adds more instruments, you still pay $19.
Pro - growing number of VSTs available for a fixed monthly cost; it will take 6 years to get to the purchase price of a real System-8
Cons - You rent the instruments, never own them. When you use an instance of a downloaded Cloud VST, it checks that you are subscribing. If not (or internet connection fails), it won't let you use the VST. Also, if you revisit a track you did with the VST legitimately as a subscriber, but you no longer subscribe, the track will not play (if midi - fine if 'frozen' to audio track).
Have to be honest, I'm not entirely sure if I'm for it or not. The recurring revenue model is popular (adobe, Microsoft, etc) and has its merits. But at $19 a month I think it's too high. Also there should be a lifetime option for say $300 (as SONAR Platinum did). Version 5 of the Roland Cloud may highlight what they intend to deliver for the $50 per month category - it's going to have to be huge for that kind of money! |
You keep saying VST's. Are AU versions available? And - how do you know all this - I've looked over the web site - and the Facebook Page - and I'm struggling to find those explanations (in fact - haven't found them!).
So specific questions (if you can help )"
1. Are AU versions available.
2. Do you need System 1 or System 8 to use these?
3. Can you buy them outright?
4. What does the $19 per month give you - does it give you ALL plugouts - as dedicated plugins (without needing a System 1 or System ?
have to say - the cost is very high. No doubt there will be loads who go for them, but I absolutely loath this model. If all music software goes this way - we'll all be forking out hundreds of Euro every month for our equivalent setups.
Thanks,
Kevin. |
1. Yes
2. No.. it works from any keyboard using the midi protocol... but to take full advantage of the much higher cloud quallity you should have a rainlink compatible instrument.... those currently are fp90, System-8 and RD2000
3. You can not buy anything, only subscription..
4. It does not only give you the plugouts as VST or AU plugins... it also gives you the orriginal system 1 and system 8 as plugins.. on top of that there is a new kind of Super natural VST engine, that they are expanding with HQ sampled versions of all sampled based Roland instruments.. and even with some new instruments.. (currently available are the D50, and Alpha Juno1 and Juno2 and a new EDM bass VST named Wiggle)
Roland plans to rapidly expand on these..
_________________
Korg Kronos 2/88 , Genos, Mainstage3 +VSTsu, ipad pro, GSi Gemini, Roland Integra 7, Jupiter Xm, Yamaha motif XS rack, Ketron SD90.
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Bachus
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 3126
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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Also check out this video, where Woody explains the difference between the sample based instruments that are being added each month, and the plugins that are true emulations..
https://youtu.be/3grGAoVssFc
The anthology synths, are just samples of in this case the D50
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Korg Kronos 2/88 , Genos, Mainstage3 +VSTsu, ipad pro, GSi Gemini, Roland Integra 7, Jupiter Xm, Yamaha motif XS rack, Ketron SD90.
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Derek Cook
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Joined: 20 Jul 2014
Posts: 1279
Location: Wales, UK
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Bachus
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 3126
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| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Derek Cook wrote: | | Hmm. The idea of a Cloud synth is not for me, but Roland must think there is a market for it. |
Personally i think they will be part of an upcomming cloud workstation.. with VST support... that works in combination with any high end PC...
Not having such a workstation would be illogical for a hardwrae company..
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Korg Kronos 2/88 , Genos, Mainstage3 +VSTsu, ipad pro, GSi Gemini, Roland Integra 7, Jupiter Xm, Yamaha motif XS rack, Ketron SD90.
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Devnor
Full Member
Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Posts: 222
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| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | being cloud dependent to that degree is NO alternative to offline independence |
Not true. The plug authorization is tied to the system calendar. Assuming your system is never ever connected to the internet you would have to connect to let the system re-authorize the plug ins each month. The authorization is sophisticated enough to detect if the clock is reset to an earlier date so no cheating!
The software industry is moving to a subscription model for copy protection reasons and to recoup development/engineering costs for upgrades and OS/DAW compatibility reasons. Fact of life - get used it. It is slightly amusing that people with 10s of thousands of dollars worth of synthesizers and studio gear to get upset over a $249/year plugin suite. |
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