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What organ settings for "Like A Rolling Stone"?

 
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PianoManChuck
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:51 pm    Post subject: What organ settings for "Like A Rolling Stone"? Reply with quote

I was just wondering if anyone knew of the organ settings on the SV-1 to achieve the organ sound in Bob Dylan's "Like A Rolling Stone"? Can't seem to find just the right combination Sad
Thanks in advance for any help!
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i_am_binky
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it's a Hammond B3; for more details, here's a quote from musicplayer forum about the settings.


Quote:
http://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/1071665/Re_Bob_Dylan_Hammond_Sounds#Post1071665

For Like A Rolling Stone and Positively 4th Street, something in the neighborhood of 53 8722 680 with on, normal, fast, second percussion will get you in the ballpark. C3 chorus and adjust upper harmonics to taste. Salt and pepper optional.
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PianoManChuck
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the reply!
I was actually referring to the settings needed on the SV-1 to duplicate that Hammond sound Dylan used.... if anyone knows, that would be awesome!
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Spacecowboy
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:53 pm    Post subject: ugh Reply with quote

don't you hate answers that are useless. you can find the actual organ drawbar settings online for a hammond to a clone. But as far as this SV-1 goes, good luck. I'm thinking about returning mine and just get a nord.
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Spacecowboy
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:59 pm    Post subject: ugh Reply with quote

don't you hate answers that are useless. you can find the actual organ drawbar settings online for a hammond to a clone. But as far as this SV-1 goes, good luck. I'm thinking about returning mine and just get a nord.
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PianoManChuck
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:40 pm    Post subject: Re: ugh Reply with quote

Spacecowboy wrote:
don't you hate answers that are useless. you can find the actual organ drawbar settings online for a hammond to a clone. But as far as this SV-1 goes, good luck. I'm thinking about returning mine and just get a nord.


Nords are cool too, but the time needed to back up sounds in order to load new sounds is too much (the small memory amount just doesn't cut it). Selecting sounds on the Nord are a small hassle if you have a decent number of sounds you need to use at a gig. For piano, Korg's RH3 is a nicer action.

Korg could benefit from offering more sound packs, or at least coming up with the equivalent of Nord's "Sample Manager" software. SV-1 has been out since 2009, you'd think they'd have offered something like that by now.
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Spacecowboy
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:23 pm    Post subject: Just got back from guitar center. Reply with quote

Ok, so i brought the SV-1 back. i played the nord, and yes, it wasn't easy to navigate quickly. That keybed on the Sv-1 is to die for. i noticed another keyboard in there had it.
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PianoManChuck
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Just got back from guitar center. Reply with quote

Spacecowboy wrote:
Ok, so i brought the SV-1 back. i played the nord, and yes, it wasn't easy to navigate quickly. That keybed on the Sv-1 is to die for. i noticed another keyboard in there had it.

So did you trade the SV-1 in? Or did you bring it back home....

The keybed on the SV-1 is Korg's RH3 key action. The Korg Kronos also has it (88-key versions, and I think the 73-key too).
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:14 pm    Post subject: came back with nothing Reply with quote

got my money back. minus a restocking fee. just wasn't prepared to spend over 3k for a keyboard. All i wanted was what the SV-1 had. found out the reason the knobs are loose is the push button ones, but mine were way loose. and the hiss coming out of it. the one at the store didnt do it. Iwe pulled the knobs, and the loose ones didnt have a metal hex nut like the ones that were solid. didnt trust the build quality. i originally wasa going for the roland v-combo but it was a cheap thousand dollar piece of crap. it was tempting to get a system 8 or deep mind 12 or even the nord 5d for the 2,300, but everything just started sounding not worth it to me in the store.
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PianoManChuck
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What you did is proof positive that once you take home a keyboard that you thought you wanted (GAS), play around with it for a while, then return it, often cures GAS (Gear Acquisition Syndrome). Satisfies the need/urge, and puts your money right back into your pocket Smile
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Scott
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PianoManChuck wrote:
Thanks for the reply!
I was actually referring to the settings needed on the SV-1 to duplicate that Hammond sound Dylan used.... if anyone knows, that would be awesome!

The SV1 does not have much in the way of adjustable organ sounds, it's pretty much just a handful of common presets (out of countless possible sounds you can get out of an actual organ). The only tonewheel organ sounds are:

Stock SV1: Organ locations 1, 2, and 3
Sound Pack #1: sounds 25, 26, 27, 28, 29
Sound Pack #2: sounds 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30 but also, sounds 25 and 27 allow you to bring in additional drawbars using the RX knob (press the Function button, and then use the Bass knob), so you can adjust that knob to see if you can get closer to what you're looking for. (Sounds 26 and 30 similarly use that knob to bring in percussion, and sounds 28 and 29 don't change any organ setting per se but are another approach to overdrive, in addition to the regular amp controls).

With any of them, turn on the Rotary effect. Different amp/overdrive settings let you tailor how "dirty" you want the sound to be and the character of that distortion, but there are no actual organ tonewheel settings you can get, other than the ones listed above.

There are so few organ drawbar settings available, it would not take long for you to go through them and see if you can get close to what you want. There are only 14 possibilities, plus the one knob control on a handful of them.

If you want to recreate particular organ sounds, you'd want a keyboard that has an actual "drawbar" organ function in it, like these:

Korg Kronos
Kawai MP7
Roland RD2000, RD800, VR09, FA-06/FA-08,
Kurzweil, anything in the Artis, Forte, SP, or PC series
Casio XW-P1, WK-7600 (and to a limited extent, PX5S)
Nord, anything in the Electro or Stage series (and their dedicated C2D organ)
and of course anything from Hammond, and other organ-centric boards like Crumar Mojo, Numa Organ

They don't all sound the same by any means, but (except for PX5S) they all give you the full 9-drawbar adjustability so that you can get something in the ballpark of any Hammond organ registration.


Last edited by Scott on Thu Apr 27, 2017 5:37 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 1:36 pm    Post subject: Re: ugh Reply with quote

PianoManChuck wrote:
Nords are cool too, but the time needed to back up sounds in order to load new sounds is too much (the small memory amount just doesn't cut it).

The SV1 has two grand piano samples (a Yamaha and a Steinway). On the Nord, you can similarly load a Yamaha and a Steinway, and if you never want any other piano, you're done. But Nord gives you the option to replace those pianos with others if you want, SV1 does not (nor does almost any other board). Nothing on the Nord requires you to go through the 15 minute (or whatever) process to change the pianos that are in the board, but isn't it nice to have that option rather than not have it? (Especially since Nord keeps coming out with new pianos you can load into the board if you want to?)

As for the "small memory amount," it's all relative. The current Nord Electro gives you 1024 mb for your piano/EP/clav sounds, and 256 mb for everything else, for a total of 1280 mb, not even counting the organs which are modeled and don't use any sample memory at all. The SV1 has a total of 512 mb for everything. And again, you can't replace what's in the SV1's 512 mb, whereas you can change what's in the Nord's 1280. (But you don't have to!)

The SV1 is a great instrument, with (IMO) better EP sounds than the Nord, and a better feeling weighted action than what Nord uses in their HP models, and it sells for a lot less money. But the Nord is a great board too.

PianoManChuck wrote:
Selecting sounds on the Nord are a small hassle if you have a decent number of sounds you need to use at a gig.

True, patch selection is a Nord weakness. There are a few things to keep in mind, though.

One is that the Nord is geared to make it pretty easy to grab basic sounds on the fly. You don't have to use a preset to get to your organ, you can just enable the organ function. You don't have to use a preset to get to your piano, you can just enable the piano function. You don't have to use a preset to change from a grand piano to a Rhodes, instead you can enable the piano function and select an EP with the button in the piano section. In fact, switching among Piano and EP sounds that way is conceptually not very different from how you can get to different Piano and EP sounds on the SV1 by using the dials instead of the 8 Favorite buttons (though admittedly it's nicer to have a 6-position dial for the different EPs in a category, as opposed to having to hit a button to rotate through 6 options).

But okay, sometimes presets are the way to go. Different Nord models have differences in this area, but on the current Electro, the way to avoid having to just scroll through the available (factory and user) presets is to use their Set List function. The way I have it set up is that, when I hit the Set List button, the four preset select buttons have my four most frequently needed sounds, and if I turn the select knob one notch, they get re-defined to my next four most needed sounds. (And you can keep going beyond that, also setting up sets-of-four that you need for specific songs, which is the "official" purpose of the feature.) So besides grabbing sounds "on the fly," I have instant access to my 8 most needed presets very quickly, either via a direct button, or a single knob click and then a direct button. 8 isn't a lot, but depending on your needs, it can take you pretty far. In fact, the SV1 only has 8 "preset buttons" itself (the Favorite buttons).

But sure, sometimes that isn't enough either. Beyond that, you might want to use some other device for patch selection, whether it's an iPad/iPhone/Android app, a foot controller, or even sending Program Change commands from a second board in your rig, if your second board happens to have that capability anyway (the SV1 does not, though other Korgs like the Kross, Krome, and Kronos do, as do many boards from Yamaha and Kurzweil, for example).

But of course, sometimes, none of that is what someone wants, the Nord isn't for everybody, just as the SV1 and every other board isn't for everybody, they all have trade-offs.

PianoManChuck wrote:
Korg could benefit from offering more sound packs, or at least coming up with the equivalent of Nord's "Sample Manager" software. SV-1 has been out since 2009, you'd think they'd have offered something like that by now.

There is no "Sample Manager" for Nord. Do you mean "Sample Editor" or "Sound Manager"?

The SV1 Editor is the SV1 version of the "Sound Manager" -- you can backup and restore sound sets, move sounds to new locations, change which sounds are available (from among those that Korg makes available, or your own edited versions). You can also actually edit more parameters of the sounds than you can edit from the SV1's front panel (the Nord app doesn't do that).

More sound packs would be nice, but a "Sample Manager" would be impossible, because the purpose of the sample manager is to create new samples you can load into the board, and the SV1 does not have the kind of rewriteable memory in it that you would need in order to put new samples into it. The soundpacks don't install new samples, they manipulate the samples that are already in the board.

BTW, the Nord pianos play very nicely from the SV1 action, and it's easy to go back and forth between using each instrument for its own sounds or using the SV1 to trigger a Nord piano, with just a couple of button presses. The boards also look cool together, esp. if you get the SV1 in red. Wink



Last edited by Scott on Thu Apr 27, 2017 5:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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xp50player
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 5:07 pm    Post subject: Re: ugh Reply with quote

PianoManChuck wrote:
Korg could benefit from offering more sound packs, or at least coming up with the equivalent of Nord's "Sample Manager" software. SV-1 has been out since 2009, you'd think they'd have offered something like that by now.


The Korg soundpacks are only variations of the factory presets, except for a few that utilize wavesamples not represented in the presets, like the bass/piano split. The SV-1 has no sample ROM expandability, and no tonewheel modeling.
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PianoManChuck
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scott,

Thanks for taking the time to put together your detailed response! Much appreciated. That's a fine example of what forums like this should be.

Actually, responses such as yours not only help the OP, but it also educates ALL readers at the same time.

Thanks again!!!
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