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Individual Outputs - Korg Kronos

 
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valadis.mel



Joined: 11 Dec 2014
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 10:47 am    Post subject: Individual Outputs - Korg Kronos Reply with quote

Hello guys, yesterday I used my individual (1/2 or 3/4) outputs from Kronos as a mirror for L/R main outputs . This helps me to control better my personal monitoring system from a small mixer but I was hearing from my headphones that the signal from individual outputs it's a little bit distorted like when the signal is clipping . Main volume knob doesn't affect the volume for the other outputs expect the main outputs and phones output . Is there any way to control the volume (gain) from individual outputs from Kronos ? In addition when I route a timbre from a compi to individual outputs , I have to set the volume from timbre to 30~40 to avoid a distorted signal. I am wondering why this happens ? These outputs have so much preamped signal? Thank you in advanced !
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geoelectro
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Joined: 14 Sep 2012
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Location: Texas

PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe the individual outs are the same as the L/R outputs. However, there is a volume control on the L/R outputs which can make those outputs be different in comparison. What is distorting? The mixer?

I run my L/R with the volume control at half volume. So, it would seem lower compared to the individuals. The volume control does also affect the headphones output. When I was using a local mixer for monitoring, I took the HP output to the mixer which mirrored the L/R.

I'm making use of all but one output. 1 goes to the Ventilator. 3&4 are used for running click and backing tracks. L/R of course for keyboard sounds.

Geo
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Kronos 61 : 3GB RAM 120GB 2nd Drv.
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19naia
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Joined: 29 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When you set up individual out pairs to Globally mirror L/R outs, you end up with Main volume control and Master volume control for volume controls.
Master slider and Main volume knob can actually control the mains and inividuals separately.
I forget which one controls all volume and which controls just one set of sound out.
If you set it up globally rather than via IFX, then try your Master slider to see what it does for your individual outs. Maybe it works the same via IFX as well, but i have not tried that yet.
I did try the global audio setting of individual out pairs mirroring main outs. Master slider is definitely one of the volume controls in the mix.

And yes the individual outs seem to send a louder sound signal through, which coincides with your "sound Clipping" issues.
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valadis.mel



Joined: 11 Dec 2014
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought so the best solution for my personal monitoring is to send signal from individuals to the main mixer (mirroring main outs L&R). Then I can use inputs from Kronos to take sound from an aux from main mixer to hear my own mix from the band . So, I can use my headphones from phones output and control the volume from kronos (main volume knob) and to volume from input that comes from an aux from main mixer. When I control the volume for headphones output from the main volume knob , affect the signal from main outs L&R so I cannot send signal to the main mixer from main outputs . The problem is the clipping from individuals outputs :\ !
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4GodnWV
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Joined: 28 Jan 2017
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Location: Teays Valley, WV

PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps I am misunderstanding the problem, but I use a DI box for live performance. (Behringer Ultra-DI Pro DI800 8-channel Active Instrument Direct Box)

This allows me to simply use the main outputs of each synthesizer in my 4 keyboard setup. The DI box splits the signal(s) from each keyboard (stereo or mono) sending hi-impedance 1/4" TS to my onstage mixer and low-impedance XLR to the stage snake.

The soundboard can make any fine adjustments needed, but if I'm doing my job that is usually just a little tweaking of individual channel "gain" balancing, which I am doing on my onstage mixer as well.

I can plug headphones into any single synth or into the mixer to hear all at once.
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19naia
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Joined: 29 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

valadis.mel wrote:
I thought so the best solution for my personal monitoring is to send signal from individuals to the main mixer (mirroring main outs L&R). Then I can use inputs from Kronos to take sound from an aux from main mixer to hear my own mix from the band . So, I can use my headphones from phones output and control the volume from kronos (main volume knob) and to volume from input that comes from an aux from main mixer. When I control the volume for headphones output from the main volume knob , affect the signal from main outs L&R so I cannot send signal to the main mixer from main outputs . The problem is the clipping from individuals outputs :\ !


Kronos does not allow you to separate volume control of Headphones and L/R mains. They are one and the same main volume controlled.

So headphones/L/R mains volume knob controls all volume to all sound outputs in your setup.
That leaves "Master Slider" as independent volume control over individual outs without affecting Headphones... or do i have that backwards?

Also, running sound out of Kronos and back in through the inputs to hear through Kronos main or indv. output again, can get complicated such as with feedback loops. I had it work for me once but i quickly ran into a terrible digital distortion(much worse than clipping sound) when i tried a particular sound or maybe it was when i tried to record.

You still have not mentioned trying your Master slider for volume control to see what it does to separate volume control of Headphones and Individual outs. Have you tried your Master slider as volume control for individual outs or headphones?
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valadis.mel



Joined: 11 Dec 2014
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finally I realized that I have an issue at my outputs generally (and in the main outputs too). I have distorted sounds when the volume knob is in half and more . Unfortunately I am going for service ! Sad
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geoelectro
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Joined: 14 Sep 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

May I take this opportunity to say keyboard outputs can be damaged when connecting to PA boards with phantom power on. (Just a reminder)

Geo
_________________
Kronos 61 : 3GB RAM 120GB 2nd Drv.
Kronos 2 61
N.I. Komplete 7, Omnisphere 2, VB-3.
HP i7 8GB Win 10
Yamaha P-80 Weighted Keyboard. NanoPad2
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4GodnWV
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Joined: 28 Jan 2017
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Location: Teays Valley, WV

PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

geoelectro wrote:
May I take this opportunity to say keyboard outputs can be damaged when connecting to PA boards with phantom power on. (Just a reminder)

Geo



Got a source for that? I can't seem to find any reference to it in the OG. Thnx
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geoelectro
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I repair keyboards and have seen and repaired many boards damaged by phantom power. Kurzweil, Yamaha and Roland.

E-caps in the output circuit are not typically rated for 48V. Also, manufacturers use transistors for muting which are not rated for that voltage.

Usually if using a DI box you are protected. Using 1/4" to XLR cable directly to the board with phantom power is dangerous.

Geo
_________________
Kronos 61 : 3GB RAM 120GB 2nd Drv.
Kronos 2 61
N.I. Komplete 7, Omnisphere 2, VB-3.
HP i7 8GB Win 10
Yamaha P-80 Weighted Keyboard. NanoPad2
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4GodnWV
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Joined: 28 Jan 2017
Posts: 113
Location: Teays Valley, WV

PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Usually if using a DI box you are protected. Using 1/4" to XLR cable directly to the board with phantom power is dangerous.

Geo[/quote]

I have never heard such a thing. It's kinda freaking me out. I use a Behringer Ultra-DI Pro DI800 8-channel Active Instrument Direct Box. Run 1/4" TS stereo out of Kronos main L/R - to the DI, then 1/4" TS out stereo to onstage mixer and XLR out stereo to snake. Never had a problem with any of the synths (have 4 in my key stacks, including 2 Roland arrangers) but the Behringer does have onboard phantom power.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DI800

Edit: After reviewing the owners manual for the DI I think it just receives the phantom power from the PA mixer. We do not have the phantom power from the board engaged, as we are not using any condenser mics.
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geoelectro
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phantom power is available on the XLR jacks of a mixer. If connecting to the 1/4" TS or TRS phantom power is not present. There are cables with a 1/4" plug on one end and an XLR on the other. It's a quick way to connect but it "could" pass phantom power to your instrument. Hopefully this kind of cable is rarely used.

I mentioned it because of the discussion of bad outputs. Another possible "output killer" is bad grounds in a building where the mixer is on a different phase than the stage and large voltage potentials are present. Since the mixer is usually on the other side of the room being on a different phase is actually common. A bad ground can result in large voltage potentials between the board and the instruments. Plugging in a cable with this condition can damage circuits in the keyboard.

Studios spend a great deal of time to eliminate these kinds of problems, usually in the effort to eliminate hum. Playing out in random buildings can be a greater risk.

Unfortunately, it's a complicated world we live in. Glad you haven't had any problems and I only try to inform from my experience.

Geo
_________________
Kronos 61 : 3GB RAM 120GB 2nd Drv.
Kronos 2 61
N.I. Komplete 7, Omnisphere 2, VB-3.
HP i7 8GB Win 10
Yamaha P-80 Weighted Keyboard. NanoPad2
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4GodnWV
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Joined: 28 Jan 2017
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Location: Teays Valley, WV

PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks so much for the input.

If I understand correctly, even though the DI box is connected via the snake to the XLR connection on the main board (which has phantom power) the DI box and my 1/4" TS cables break any flow of voltage back to my synths.

But, if I were to hook directly to the XLR inputs on the board the phantom power could flow into the outputs of the Kronos and fry something.

Just to confirm my thinking, you could run out of any output of the Kronos, adapt to XLR, through the snake, and then at the board end of the snake adapt to 1/4" TS and into a Hi-impedance input, where no phantom power would exist.

Correct?
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