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Non near-field speaker set-up...?
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G



Joined: 10 Jun 2017
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:17 pm    Post subject: Non near-field speaker set-up...? Reply with quote

I am trying to figure out how to use regular home stereo tower speakers with the Kronos - instead of the powered near-field speakers.

I would like for the sound to be able to cover a much larger space (for example, to give the illusion that you actually have a 9 ft. concert grand in the room) - and not just the narrow triangulation that near-field speakers give you.

I would also like others to be able to hear the music and not have to stand behind me, etc.

So, anyone have any experience in doing this, or have any ideas?

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Schmooster
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the piano try changing the stereo perspective in the Setup menu from player to audience - this will change what they, and you, hear. If you were playing a real grand then you get a completely different sound to the audience - but using a keyboard the audience hears what you hear - so by changing the perspective it means you hear it as the audience would hear it - and so do they because they hear what you hear - it really can open up the stereo field considerably; after that it's a simple matter of fine tuning which is difficult to do on your own, but you're not going to get a large coverage anyway so it'll probably be Ok to just have the speakers facing you as if you were in the audience - but accounting for the changes to dynamics when people are in the room when you're tweaking everything in an empty one is going to take some trial and error in my opinion - unless the venue is fixed?
The only other suggestion I can offer is to have a Stereo Wide insert and adjust accordingly to suit the acoustics. Reverb is set for real-time, perhaps add the stereo field to a realtime control as well and have a 'stooge' at the back helping you balance the sound from your end - or get someone else to play while you run back and forth finding a 'mid range' you can start from when you go live - maybe mic-up a mid point and see how it sounds it from so you get a realtime idea of the sound you're getting. To be honest the Kronos is pretty fat and punchy and usually harder to play with accompanyment than solo - but then I'm not doing the mixing unless I'm recording ideas - it's a tough one. You'll need EQ as well obviously - it's doable in my opinion and the Kronos will be more help than hindrance; but I've not done it myself except maybe for the odd garden party or at Christmas when people are too drunk to really care. Good Luck though - I'm sure someone can give you the advice you need.
Oh yeah and save a good range of set-ups on the set list.
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G



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a fixed setting - a home studio.

I am just trying to figure out how to do it.

How do I get the (best) sound out of the Kronos into the home stereo tower speakers...

I assume one way would be to somehow connect the Kronos to a home stereo amplifier or receiver and then connect the home stereo tower speakers to the receiver...

Not sure if that is going to give me the Kronos' "best" sound though...

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amit
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What kind of home audio system?
Does it have any native latency. A lot of AVR systems have inherent latency, so they might not work for realtime play.
Your system should have line inputs , usually rca
You connect Kronos output to these using 1/4'" - rca cables, or. RCA adapters for normal 1/4" cables. On your system change the input to aux or whatever it has. That's all to it.
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Schmooster
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just amp up the headphones output through the Amp Aux then - that's about as clean as you'll get it - the rest is down to your amp and speakers. Personally I'd sell all those and get some active monitors instead. You didn't specify it was for home use, it sounded like you had an audience in mind - my bad. Confused
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Schmooster wrote:
Just amp up the headphones output through the Amp Aux then - that's about as clean as you'll get it - the rest is down to your amp and speakers. Personally I'd sell all those and get some active monitors instead. You didn't specify it was for home use, it sounded like you had an audience in mind - my bad. Confused


No bad - you are right, I wasn't clear. Smile
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

amit wrote:
What kind of home audio system?
Does it have any native latency. A lot of AVR systems have inherent latency, so they might not work for realtime play.
Your system should have line inputs , usually rca
You connect Kronos output to these using 1/4'" - rca cables, or. RCA adapters for normal 1/4" cables. On your system change the input to aux or whatever it has. That's all to it.


Yamaha RX-A1070:

https://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio_visual/av_receivers_amps/rx-a1070_u/index.html

Yamaha NS-555:

https://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio_visual/speaker_systems/ns-555/index.html
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amit
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a Yamaha average system too, I don't think it's going to work for live playing at it has significant processing delay.
To check, set set the output mode to straight (bypass any DSP processing)
And turn down audio offset in settings down to zero)
See if that works for you.

You can also take digital spdif out from Kronos into your AVR optical spdif in
Via an optical cable but that did not work well for me.
Your best bet is to use the analog cables through Kronos outputs into one of the back audio in input pairs.
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iPad Pro 12.9 256GB, iPad 2, etc
Korg Kronos 2 61, Korg PA600, Novation Sl 49 MK II, Waldorf Pulse 2, Novation Circuit,EWI USB, Graphite 49,Nano key Studio, BeatStep Pro,Zoom MS-70CDR,MicroKontrol,KLC, Korg DS-1H, Korg EXP-2,Roland DP-10, Nanopad 2, TEcontrol BBC2
Ibanez S470 with SD pups, Prs Korina with SD JB set pups ,Squier CV 60's Strat,VHT Special 6 Ultra,Blackstar HT1R 1W ,Roland Cube 30x,Seymour Duncan TT Classic, Nux-Green OD & EQ, Catlinbread DLS MKIII, Steinberg UR44,Yamaha MG10XU, Behringer UltraG DI, Presonus Eris E5 ,Epiphone Acoustic, Aria Jazz Bass, SM57, Rode NT-1,M11
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Schmooster
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah - don't sell that gear for monitors lol. Don't use the headphone output either, use the L / LR mono outputs into your main left and right RCA inputs on the amp with nice decent cables - you won't have to mess about too much with that system, it's actually a really nice 'little' set-up in my opinion.

Have you already done this and have audio issues? You've got the 2 most important component parts sorted - just don't go making any 'common' connections between channels and the rest is completely subjective and down to your own personal preference.

There's not a lot to suggest - so unless you're thinking of adding anything there's no point getting a mixer /desk - hook it up, and crank it up, if you don't like it I'll have it.

I'd prefer that system to monitors anyway, it's pretty sweet. On the other hand if you are looking to add your PC then I'll pass you over to the pro's cos that system kicks the ar$e out of my home set-up and I would hate to ruin it by suggesting a little Behringer 4-1 or something (although they're not all bad) you obviously have the cash to be a little more discerning. Sad

I started out years ago with a decent 2:1 Yamaha Amp and speakers and the sound was excellent; in fact it's only due to the amount of crap I have that it had to go for a desk, 2 pairs of monitors plus about 3 pairs of DT770 Pro high impedance headsets which is all great for recording but not so great for 'performing' at home.

I mean - I don't even understand the question now. Do you live in Tatton Hall or some other Stately residence? Laughing how can you go wrong with one amp and 2 speakers?

Good luck anyway - that's gotta sound pretty amazing with a Kronos. I'm getting another divorce. Wink
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SanderXpander
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't really understand the question either. Just hook em up and try. Or do you still plan to buy something? Normally you'd use a PA for situations where you need a little more power and good spreading. You could get a really small one like the HK Lukas nano or 300.
I don't think I would personally be happy listening to the Kronos through a home stereo but if your mind is made up there's not really much advice we can give.
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Joe Gerardi
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The big problem is that home stereo equipment is designed to receive a compressed signal, and the keys output full dynamic range. That's why home speakers will tend to clip/distort easily.

It's also easy to blow the speakers for the same reason.

Something like a Behringer 8" Eurolive powered speaker will do a much better job, with more fidelity.

..Joe
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SanderXpander wrote:
I don't really understand the question either. Just hook em up and try. Or do you still plan to buy something? Normally you'd use a PA for situations where you need a little more power and good spreading. You could get a really small one like the HK Lukas nano or 300.
I don't think I would personally be happy listening to the Kronos through a home stereo but if your mind is made up there's not really much advice we can give.


Joe Gerardi wrote:
The big problem is that home stereo equipment is designed to receive a compressed signal, and the keys output full dynamic range. That's why home speakers will tend to clip/distort easily.

It's also easy to blow the speakers for the same reason.

Something like a Behringer 8" Eurolive powered speaker will do a much better job, with more fidelity.

..Joe


Is a PA going to have the same fidelity as a pair of home stereo tower speakers?

Also, the 8" and 10" Behringer EUROLIVE PAs have a frequency response of 65 Hz to 20 kHz.

The Yamaha home stereo towers have a frequency response of 30 Hz - 35 kHz.

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SanderXpander
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's nothing audible from the Kronos above the theoretical limit of 24KHz. Most likely, nothing above 20KHz due to filtering during processing. You probably don't hear much (or anything at all) above 14/16KHz unless your hearing aged exceptionally well.

That's disregarding the fact that frequency ranges tell you nothing about the flatness of the curve, the stereo crosstalk or the dynamic range. In other words, don't buy by looking at specs. Besides, you gave up the idea of "maximum fidelity" the second you didn't want studio monitors anymore. There's a reason they have a sweet spot.

A home stereo is not designed to amplify a live instrument with a high dynamic range. It's true that a PA generally has lower fidelity than studio monitors. So does a home stereo, since it's not designed to be accurate but to sound pleasing (or at least inoffensive) and spread reasonably well. I guess some might perform better than others but I would trust a small PA with a sub sooner than a home stereo for this kind of application.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SanderXpander wrote:
There's nothing audible from the Kronos above the theoretical limit of 24KHz. Most likely, nothing above 20KHz due to filtering during processing. You probably don't hear much (or anything at all) above 14/16KHz unless your hearing aged exceptionally well.

That's disregarding the fact that frequency ranges tell you nothing about the flatness of the curve, the stereo crosstalk or the dynamic range. In other words, don't buy by looking at specs. Besides, you gave up the idea of "maximum fidelity" the second you didn't want studio monitors anymore. There's a reason they have a sweet spot.

A home stereo is not designed to amplify a live instrument with a high dynamic range. It's true that a PA generally has lower fidelity than studio monitors. So does a home stereo, since it's not designed to be accurate but to sound pleasing (or at least inoffensive) and spread reasonably well. I guess some might perform better than others but I would trust a small PA with a sub sooner than a home stereo for this kind of application.


Yes, I realize that I gave up "maximum fidelity" when deciding to forgo monitors.

What I am trying to figure out is how to get the "most" fidelity out of using something else that will spread the sound throughout the room/studio - much in the way a real, live, instrument would.

I thought that a quality amp/AVR and home stereo tower speakers would be the way to go.

I thought that the amp/AVR and home stereo tower speakers would give a better sound that using PA speakers.

I guess I may have been wrong...?
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SanderXpander
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well obviously not all speakers are created equally. I'm sure that really really good home stereo speakers would do better than a bottom end PA. But buck for buck I would bet on the PA. Best would be if you could try it out, what I'm expecting is probably not what you're expecting. I'm still unsure if you already have a setup?
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