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I wouldn't mind comparing the OLD mini to the Behringer D, though I haven't seen the latter yet. The old one was iconic, yes, but as Broadwave pointed out it had various design flaws and I can tell you from experience that the keyboard is incredibly shitty by modern standards. The non-spring-loaded pitchbend is another "acquired taste". One of its main selling points at the time was that it was one of the first compact (see: Keith Emerson for contrast) mass produced synths with most useful "modules" that we now consider standard on analog synths.
Modern Moogs are made to a much higher standard, although of course they mostly lack that iconic sound. If the Behringer is made well enough AND gets close to the sound, it seems a fair comparison.
Joined: 06 Oct 2012 Posts: 534 Location: Savannah, GA
Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:59 pm Post subject:
Kevin Nolan wrote:
As said - great debate.
Let's not turn it into a farce by comparing the Behringer D to a Minimoog. Not even trying to make a point of principle here - just - don't get silly!!
Nope. Can't agree that. Behringer can't introduce a Model D that is laid out just like a Mini, is a mono analog, and advertises itself as a nod to the original without looking at the similarities.
And it's silly to even make a statement like that- BEHRINGER is making the comparisons, so we're going to as well. It's akin to saying that we can't compare the Kronos' German grand to a Steinway, or the Japanese grand to a Yamaha. That's comparing a 3000 dollar instrument to a 90,000 instrument, and everyone does it in reviewing the sounds. Why is it okay to do that, but not with the Behringer?
..Joe _________________ Current setup: Korg Kronos 61, Roland XV-88 Korg Triton-Rack, Motif-Rack, Korg N1r, Roland M-GS64, Alesis QSR, Yamaha KX88 & KX76, Roland Super-JX, Juno-Stage, Kawai K4, Kawai K1II.
Joined: 25 May 2011 Posts: 1118 Location: Manchester UK
Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:11 pm Post subject:
I built a Minimoog clone for just over £700, and guess what... Yup, it sounds and performs EXACTLY like the real thing (I now expect someone to chip in and say it doesn't).
Behringer have forgone the casing and keybed which would obviously reduce the price of manufacture, I also presume they are building quite a few of them in their own factory which would reduce costs even further - But its the electronics that dictate the overall sound, and judging by the circuit diagrams, that's what we're getting.
I'm very, VERY confident it'll sound like the real deal. I just really need to hear some decent demos (in spite of You Tube's shocking compression)
Wow Broadwave, normally I'm quite critical concerning wannabe Mini clones, but this one really sounds VERY close or identical, as far as one can tell from these bass sounds.
Great clone you have built! _________________ Kronos 73 - Moog Voyager RME - Moog LP TE - Behringer Model D - Prophet 6 - Roland Jupiter Xm - Rhodes Stage 73 Mk I - Elektron Analog Rytm MkII - Roland TR-6s - Cubase 12 Pro + Groove Agent 5
Joined: 06 May 2015 Posts: 219 Location: Garden State
Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:39 pm Post subject:
BW ... Awesome!!! _________________ Korg Kronos II - Instant Karma's Gonna Get You, Synth Wars - The Rise of the KARP 2600, OBX8 Kenobi - The Return of the Synth, KARP & Odyessey, Moog One - The Poly Menace, Vintage 2016 Model D, Voyager of Sinbad XL, Fooger Family of Six, Three Mothers Like No Others, Naboo Royal MiniTaur, MoogClaraVox, Criklon V2, in living color, Elektron RytmII Avenue, Neuman U67
Joined: 04 Dec 2005 Posts: 2524 Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:51 pm Post subject:
Joe Gerardi wrote:
Kevin Nolan wrote:
As said - great debate.
Let's not turn it into a farce by comparing the Behringer D to a Minimoog. Not even trying to make a point of principle here - just - don't get silly!!
Nope. Can't agree that. Behringer can't introduce a Model D that is laid out just like a Mini, is a mono analog, and advertises itself as a nod to the original without looking at the similarities.
And it's silly to even make a statement like that- BEHRINGER is making the comparisons, so we're going to as well. It's akin to saying that we can't compare the Kronos' German grand to a Steinway, or the Japanese grand to a Yamaha. That's comparing a 3000 dollar instrument to a 90,000 instrument, and everyone does it in reviewing the sounds. Why is it okay to do that, but not with the Behringer?
..Joe
I think we're interpreting what we mean by "comparing" differently.
You're right - you can make the comparison of the Kronos German Grand to an actual Steinway Grand Piano - and conclude that the Kronos sound carp by comparison - that would be the correct conclusion.
So Yep - let's compare the Behringer D to a Minimoog and equally conclude that it sound crap - again the correct conclusion.
I accept that many don't value good synths that cost more; and perhaps don't have the ear to discern the difference and hence may be actually inspired by cheap crap - but - I can assure you of this - all good and successful musicians will choose an actual Steinway Grand Piano, every time, over a Kronos sample; and a Minimoog - every time - over a Behringer D.
We can debate the "subjectiveness" of this all you want - and there are may here who seem prejudicially hell-bent on defending any old crap as "inspiring" or whatever; but history has already made its choices with the Minimoog likely the most historically important synthesizer of all time. If the Behringer D claims that spot, I'll consider the alternative argument; but until then I think we can put this particular debate to bed.
Joined: 22 Mar 2007 Posts: 975 Location: from a mile high to the the AZ desert
Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:01 am Post subject:
Considering all the comments and opinions; I do not think I will be trading my Mini-Moog model D for a Behringer D anytime soon. First of all the Behringer is physically smaller and it is a copy or emulation of an original. I think the original will always be prized because it simply is that. Original, popular and iconic. Why else would Behringer create a copy? _________________ http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=807494
Joined: 10 Jul 2010 Posts: 3384 Location: Middle of nowhere
Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:25 am Post subject:
I'm not in the market for a model D Moog but if the Behringer sounds good on its own, and the price is right, I won't be discouraged because it isn't a Moog. All I need is a sound I like, I could care less if it was a Moog inspired copy or if it is 100% the same.
With identical or nearly identical components, there is no reason it would sound any less good than the Moog. The MiniMoog is iconic but ultimately there is nothing magical or even particularly high tech in the construction.
Obviously it will never have the same historical value.
Joined: 06 Oct 2012 Posts: 534 Location: Savannah, GA
Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:04 pm Post subject:
Kevin Nolan wrote:
So Yep - let's compare the Behringer D to a Minimoog and equally conclude that it sound crap - again the correct conclusion.
And you know this how? How many hours have you spent on the Behringer Model D programming it to find out its capabilities? What are you basing your opinions on? A couple of YouTube videos? By your own admission on another forum you don't program synths well - a la the fully-loaded K2500Xs, yet having NEVER written a single program for it in all those years of ownership - so how can we assume you have any expertise on an analog to coax the good sounds out of it?
Ain't no one really heard the Model D yet. It very well could sound like crap; it could also be a surprise winner. And you can write that people shouldn't make comparisons, but I seriously doubt that anyone besides yourself will take heed.
..Joe _________________ Current setup: Korg Kronos 61, Roland XV-88 Korg Triton-Rack, Motif-Rack, Korg N1r, Roland M-GS64, Alesis QSR, Yamaha KX88 & KX76, Roland Super-JX, Juno-Stage, Kawai K4, Kawai K1II.
With identical or nearly identical components, there is no reason it would sound any less good than the Moog. The MiniMoog is iconic but ultimately there is nothing magical or even particularly high tech in the construction.
Obviously it will never have the same historical value.
Agreed. Shouldn't be that controversial. It will undoubtedly sound closer to a Mini than my Voyager did.
Busch. _________________ Kronos 73, Nautilus 61, Vox Continental 73, Monologue, Yamaha Montage 8, Rhodes Suitcase, Yamaha VL-1, Roland V-Synth, Yamaha AvantGrand, Minimoog Model D, Studio Electronics Omega 8, CSS, Spitfire, VSL, LASS, Sample Modeling, Ivory, Komplete 12, Spectrasonics, Cubase, Pro Tools, etc.
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