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Copying a program into a Combi

 
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utopia



Joined: 01 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:46 am    Post subject: Copying a program into a Combi Reply with quote

Hi, does anyone knows if it is possible to use the "Copy from program" option in a Combi and to expect that it sounds IDENTICAL?

I did pick a virgin combi, lets say: USER-C 002: Init Combi. Then I did pick program INT-A 124: Night times. Then I chose the option "Copy from Program" from top down menu.

I did check all options so that all effects and stuff were imported to Combi, and... bad surprise!! Sad it does behave (sounds) different than the program.

Isn't it suposed that a Combi with a single program has enough resources to preserve original effects and all stuff from the original program to let it sound IDENTICAL?

When I went a little deeper, I did realize that this program, contains two timbres EXi 1 and EXi 2 (y guess like all PolysixEx) Programs, so I am now understanding that a program is not a timbre, but, a combination of two (in some program types) timbres, with effects, finally it seems that it is like a mini-Combi of two timbres. And I did realize that in the Combi only one of the two timbres were imported and that's why it sounds different than original program. Am I correct with this conclusion?

So I guess that the intersting question is: Is there a way to import to the Combi the two timbres and finally get the original sound of the program?

I did play a little with the options but I could not find a way.

Thank you in advance! Smile
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StephenKay
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In theory, it's supposed to work flawlessly if you check all of the boxes to copy over everything.

In practice, the only difference I've heard about is sometimes the positions of the SW1 and SW2 (i.e. maybe on in the original, and off in the copy) affecting the sound.
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QuiRobinez
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Copying a program into a Combi Reply with quote

utopia wrote:

When I went a little deeper, I did realize that this program, contains two timbres EXi 1 and EXi 2 (y guess like all PolysixEx) Programs, so I am now understanding that a program is not a timbre, but, a combination of two (in some program types) timbres, with effects, finally it seems that it is like a mini-Combi of two timbres. And I did realize that in the Combi only one of the two timbres were imported and that's why it sounds different than original program. Am I correct with this conclusion?


No that conclusion is not correct, the combi is just a reference to the program, so both exi's are available for that program. Are you really sure that you selected the MFX import checkbox?

The complete procedure (including IFX / MFX management) is explained in one of the tutorials that i created.

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19naia
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Combi timbre plays the program from program mode as it is. No program actually resides in Combi, only a link/reference.
IFX/MFX/TFX are inserted into program, or Combi, or Seq. So thats why FX stuff can vary if you do not specify during a copy from one mode to another. Same thing with Karma, Karma is Karma alone until set up via midi channels to work in Combi, Seq, or Program mode.

So the things that can change during a copy, are the things that the dialogue box allows you to determine for yourself. FX, Karma, drumtrack and so on.
If you set that all, FX and Karma or that all options be included in the copy from Program, then any changes you hear in Combi could be from IFX chaining where the program FX were copied over but were inserted in a line up of other FX that had chaining already set. Also, maybe your program did not have MFX or TFX to copy over but the combi already had MFX and TFX assigned. Especialliay with TFX, you cannot disengage it from any one timbre. Either it is cleared out or it fills in to affect all timbres, including ones filled with a program copied with no TFX as a part of its original preset makeup.

Also Combi has timbre settings that can change the sound via parameters that program mode does not have. You have Timbre EQ that can affect the program, Transpose or actually any of the "Timbre Parameters" can affect the assigned program in ways that are not programed into the program.

Go to your Timbre Parameter page, and since you mentioned EXi inconsistencies, that would be part of the OSC setup in Timbre Parameters. Timbre parameters has an OSC tab subpage. You will see all kinds of OSC settings for each timbre. Your setting selections will include options like PRG, or for "OSC select" you will have options like "Both" or "OSC 1" or "OSC 2".
So, if you want your program to be independent of timbre parameter settings when you copy it to a Combi timbre, set you timbre parameter page, under OSC sub page, options to "PRG" which means Program. The timbre will yeild to program settings.
Also with the EXi you say you hear being excluded in Timbre, set the "OSC select" setting to "Both" to get both OSC and the related EXi coming through.

Look at Program TFX (if it has that) and compare it to TFX in Combi. Do the same with MFX.

I think between comparing TFX and MFX as well as the timbre parameter settings set to PRG and Both, that will be enough to zero in on the inconsistencies.
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