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Montage by Yamaha
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Ksynth
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Joined: 01 Jun 2009
Posts: 1171
Location: Northern California, USA

PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

StephenKay wrote:
GregC wrote:
I could put $4000 down on a nice $120,000 boat Smile


You can get a $120k boat with only $4k down (about 3%) ? Smile


Better borrow 120k, invest in a REIT (12 to 18% dividends) and after paying tax (say 40% depending on income, AGI), hire a boat now and then as needed.

The interest on the money borrowed is tax deductible too. Here in the USA that is.

You still have your cash and let someone else maintain the boat.
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svene



Joined: 01 Aug 2016
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey guys,
in case you missed it: A week ago I launched a petition at Change.org regarding the Montage. You probably know Yamaha totally screwed up the built-in MIDI recorder which in its present state is a complete and utter train wreck. For the recorder debacle alone Korg is laughing Yamaha out of court right now. Please sign my catalogue of demands. Thank you.

https://www.change.org/p/takuya-nakata-president-and-representative-director-of-the-yamaha-corporation-help-make-an-update-for-the-montage-synth-a-priority-for-the-yamaha-corporation

The following petition is aimed at Mr. Takuya Nakata, President and Representative Director of the Yamaha Corporation

Help make an update for the Montage synth a priority for the Yamaha Corporation

With the release of Yamaha's current flagship synthesizer Montage, fans of the now-abandoned Motif series were hopeful that the new instrument would live up to the legacy that the predecessors established. So far their hopes were deceived. Yes, the Montage has its own proprietary built-in MIDI sequencer, called 'Direct Performance Recorder', but unfortunately, upon release, some important features were missing. Basic functions like copying or erasing MIDI data have not been implemented. So far only simultaneous recording of all 16 tracks is allowed – an impossible task with only one pair of hands. One can not fix mistakes made during a recording. There is no point in all of that, due to the fact that we are talking about MIDI data, not audio.

With signing to this petition you ask the Yamaha Corporation to prioritize making an update to the operating system of the Montage synthesizer. These are the recommended improvements:

Implement CONSECUTIVE RECORD: It allows tracks to be recorded one after the other, instead of simultaneously.

Implement LOOP RECORD: Recording takes place repeatedly over a specified area, according to loop point settings.

Implement COPY: This function copies a specified area of recorder data. It is convenient for repeating the same phrase several times.

Implement DELETE: This function deletes a specified area of recorder data, and moves the subsequent data to fill the gap. As a result, the measure length will be shortened by the number of deleted measures.

Implement ERASE: This function erases all the recorder data inside a specified area. As the erased data is replaced by rests, the original measures will remain.

Implement INSERT: This function inserts blank measures into a specified song position.

Implement TRANSPOSE: This function transposes the pitch of notes within a specified area, over a +/- 127 semitone range.

Sign this petition to help make the built-in MIDI recorder of Yamaha's Montage synthesizer useable.
https://www.change.org/p/takuya-nakata-president-and-representative-director-of-the-yamaha-corporation-help-make-an-update-for-the-montage-synth-a-priority-for-the-yamaha-corporation

Thank you for participating. 有り難うございます

Links to this petition have been posted at Yamaha's official synthesizer forum. Phil Clendeninn a.k.a. 'Bad Mister', senior technical sales specialist for Yamaha, has been informed.
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svene



Joined: 01 Aug 2016
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The fact that Yamaha presenter Bert Smorenburg in preparation for his Sonic State demo had to bypass the recognized problem (no consecutive recording of tracks possible) says it all. He posted a smart but cumbersome workaround at Yamaha Synth forum a few weeks ago:
Quote:
I found a fun workaround to make this recorder behave like a multitimbral sequencer. First of all, I programmed several sounds within one Performance: Piano, strings, bass, drums and clavinet. Then, I switched off all Keyboard Control (the green buttons in the main screen) so they all became separately available using Part Control (the orange buttons on the right). I opened the midi recorder, and recorded the piano. Then I put the recorder in Overdub and added the strings, bass, drums etc. until I had a multitrack recording. Actually pretty simple. Before all this, I imported a vocal sample wav from Diana Ross's Upside Down and prepared a Performance with only this sample. So, at the end of my recording session I basically triggered this Diana Ross sample from the keyboard, in time with the recorded music. All pretty simple but quite effective, and obviously discussion material!

The above mentioned workflow ist still a PITA. You still have to record each and every part, measure, chorus etc. of your song individually. How crazy is that? I don´t own a Montage, but I tested its recorder at Superbooth in Berlin in April and later at Music Store, Cologne, Germany. The inability to copy MIDI data--not even within the same track (!)--makes the Montage useless as a basic standalone production tool. We are talking about laughable MIDI data, not huge audio wave files. Remember: Yamaha is the parent company of Steinberg. My guess is they want Montage users to purchase the full-blown Cubase version later also. What if Montage users don´t want to use a DAW? Should they be forced to buy or use outboard gear in order to utilize a feature that is on a 3000 Euro keyboard? From what I read at Motifator they lost every loyal Motif user in a nanosecond, myself included. Having said all of that, they can win me back with a recorder update.

Some recorder screenshots. The touch display is nice.



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eli125
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Joined: 19 Mar 2014
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

can i use my yamaha montage sounds into roland fantom G6 ?
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fcoulter
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Joined: 31 Jul 2015
Posts: 272
Location: Central Florida

PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eli125 wrote:
can i use my yamaha montage sounds into roland fantom G6 ?


I can't think of any way you'd be able to copy your Yamaha Montage sounds into a Roland Fantom G6 other than sampling the sound created on the Montage and then importing the sample into your Fantom. But the resulting sound will not have the player controls that you have on the Montage.
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Korg: Kronos2 88
Other: Tyros 5 76, DGX-650, YPT-320, Fretted Clavichord, Upright Piano, DX-7, SY-99, eMu MPS (last three in attic)

RCM Certificates: Advanced Rudiments


Last edited by fcoulter on Wed Aug 17, 2016 12:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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eli125
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 4:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanx
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JimH
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SanderXpander wrote:
You can have 16 midi channels in multi mode but every "part" is then fixed to its corresponding midi channel number. So part 1 is channel 1, part 2 is channel 2 etc.
As limiting as this is it wouldn't even be so awful if basic sounds like the main piano sound didn't consist of four parts. So you can't buy a 61 key Montage and play the piano from an 88 key controller while using all the wonderful gizmos for a synth sound on top. Not only that, but in the link the Yamaha rep insists that this is normal behavior for any midi device (contrary to all Montage predecessors they have created) and that you need to really be playing on the Montage keyboard to really understand and enjoy what it's about (as if that somehow affects playing a piano patch).

This is the biggest reason I hesitate to buy a Montage. Unfortunately, as fundamental as this function is, it gets buried in the mountain of misc. feature requests from everyone on the Yamaha forum. As for the Yamaha rep, it's kind of strange how when people say anything critical of the Montage he takes a defensive stance and tells them there is something wrong with the way they are working. It makes me wonder if any complaints like this MIDI behavior ever get past him and reach Yamaha.
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Bertotti
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if, behind the scenes, there isn't a silent war going on to see who will determine midi of the future.
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Mosquita Muerta



Joined: 23 Jan 2015
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 2:50 am    Post subject: Best Synth of that year...superb sequencer! Reply with quote

http://www.cyborgstudio.com/synthmp3s/yamaha/motifes678/manual/motifesbrochure.pdf
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Derek Cook
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just thought I would pass by and say I have purchased a Montage 7 to replace my Yamaha EX5 as my lower tier keyboard for live use, and I think it nicely complements my Kronos X61 on the top tier.

Experience so far is very positive.

I was quite critical of Yamaha when I saw the Montage on paper, as whilst I applauded the return of FM, I would have loved to see them go further with AN and VL engines for example. And it is criminal that FDSP only ever appeared on the EX5. I was hoping with the Kronos as the competition that Yamaha would do the EX5 as it should have been done. As much as I am now a Korg fan with the Kronos, I still love the Yamaha sound.

I was disappointed when I saw that the Montage "only" had AWM2 and FM-X, and whilst I have been a vocal "paper critic", I always knew one day I would have to replace my EX5 and that I would go and demo the Montage to hear it for myself, once I had the budget ready to replace the EX5.

So, why did I pull the trigger on it?

Simple, it sounds fantastic, and the performance focus is well thought out, and gives you lots of inspiration. I never use a Workstation sequencer for any recording work, so the fact it does not have a full blown sequencer is not an issue for me personally. All my studio recording is done in Cubase and if I need a backing track on stage I use Cantabile (more later), or I have the Kronos Sequencer.

I think Yamaha score a bit of an own goal when they refer to AWM as AWM2, which has been the name since the SY series. AWM-X might be a more appropriate name, and a more powerful beast compared to the four element AWM in my EX5 and Motif Rack ES.

In fact (RCM notwithstanding) the Montage reminds me of my SY in that here we have a digital workstation that can sound very analog. Its AWM engine has some really good analog sounds and it even does sync lead sounds pretty well (need to dig in and understand how!)

After years of the Korg and the SSD, sample streaming and ease of file transfer via network, I am now back in the world of USB Thumb drives, Yamaha quirkiness and a 1.8GB FLASH limit. It does show that Korg made the right move on the OASYS/Kronos to remove such restrictions, but that does not bother me that the Montage is capped, as I have the Kronos for when I need to do sample streaming.

The MIDI limitation mentioned above is still dumb, but it doesn't bother me as I am redoing my keyboard rig so that Cantabile has more use. It will be a MIDI hub for the keyboards, so will be my MIDI router/merger/processor. I needed to do something as no board I have on stage can now act as a merger (my EX5 and Novation Remote61 could, which meant no external MIDI boxes required). Cantabile used to sit on the end of a MIDI Chain, but I am now making it the hub, which means that any MIDI limitations in the Montage are moot.

Cantabile is also why I am more relaxed about lack of engines on the Montage (as well has having 9 in the Kronos!). I will soon have an embedded computer in my gig rack (to replace my current aging laptop) with plenty of horse power and memory, and Cantabile will host my arsenal of soft synths, even resource hungry ones like UH-E DIVA, Omnisphere, etc. Oh, I still have my Nord G2 Engine in the rack as well Smile

So with the combination of Kronos, Montage, Nord G2 Engine and Cantabile host (with any VSTi I wish to use), I think that will see me through for a while. Smile

But back to the Montage, it really does sound great, and two weeks in I am glad I purchased it. I've had a lot of fun checking out the presets, I got some of the EasySound packs as well for even more fun, and it is now time to get it integrated in my rig.
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