Korg Forums

[bobeld@aol.com]

I have been waiting for Korg to enable the score to reflect the altered notes when a song is transposed.

If I change the key of a song from Eb to C (for ease of singing), I would expect the score to show the same change, but it does not. The song plays in C, but the score continues to show the song in the key of Eb. In addition to singing, I also solo over the song. I remove the lead (usually channel 4) and I use my right hand to become the sax, trumpet, guitarist (etc.) soloist.

I am not an expert who can read notation in the key of Eb and tranpose to C "on the fly". So I wind up playing my solos by ear instead of being able to read the score in the altered key.

My Tyros 5 accomplishes this without a problem. Transpose a song and the score transposes too. I don't understand why the Pa4x does not have this function.

Why doesn't the Pa4x transpose the score of a song.

Is anyone else frustrated by this?

[karmathanever]

This is why....

[bobeld@aol.com]

Thanks for the info Karmathanever. I became aware of this page almost a year ago when I got my Pa4x and tried to achieve the score transposition. I don't know how hard it would be for Korg to program the instrument to change the score when it transposes, but it really stinks that it can't do that.

I bought the Pa4x -61 to replace lugging my Tyros 5 - 76 to gigs. It was just getting to be too much to carry. I go back with Korg to the the model 01W and then the i3 and i30 and thought I would return to Korg.
I find the Tyros 5 has voices that are more refined, but I also like many of the features of the Pa4x like the ability to play CDG's and display their lyrics.

The Tyros will also let you play a style while simultaneously playing a song. The style locks in to the tempo of the song. Sometimes there's a style that has a drum kit and drum beat that is an improvement over the one in the song. Or if it's a guitar solo midi, I can add the bass and drum tracks from the style. And I still get to solo over the song.

If I were younger. I probably lug both keyboards to my gigs.

[dimitris]

Why do you need to transpose music score? Transpose affects the upper sounds also!!

Regards,
Dimitris
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KORG PA5X 76 + PaAS - KORG PA1000 (NEW) -KORG NAUTILUS 73 (NEW) - KORG EK-50 - KAWAI VPC1

[bobeld@aol.com]

Demetrius, you asked me why, I would want to transpose the score when tranposition affect the upper voices as well.

The Pa4x can be set to not tranpose the upper voices and just the song.
I do not have perfect pitch, but I know that if I transpose a song 4 half steps lower for example, that I should be playing the song 4 half steps lower. So if I transpose the song from C to Ab, I want to play the melody in Ab, not C. Somehow, it confuses my brain to be playing in C and hear the notes transposed Ab.
Again, the ability to transpose a song without transposing the keyboard and have the score shown in the transposed key is something that my Tyros 5 does without a second thought. (I could get it to do what you are suggesting the Pa4x does, but that is not what I want).
Thanks for replying to my post.

[Sam CA]

I don't use this feature so I can't comment on how it works. I'm just thinking they reason they don't transpose the score is that most people would still be playing the score in the original key after they transposed the keyboard.

Say if the score was in the key of C and you transposed the whole keyboard to Ab, it wouldn't make much sense to play the melody in the key of Ab, but play the chords in the key of C.... . I'm sure you know that already, so I probably misunderstood the point.
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Sam

[bobeld@aol.com]

Sam - the Pa4x gives you two transpose options:

You can transpose the song and the keyboard follows (which is the scenario which, if I am correct, you are describing). On the transpose page, you have the keyboard and styles turned ON and the player box is selected and is blue. The entire keyboard shifts - song, styles and keyboard. I do not want this scenario.

You can transpose the song and NOT the keyboard (so that the song is now playing in Ab and you play along in Ab. - You don't play the keyboard note C to achieve the Ab; you play the keyboard note Ab. On the transpose page, you have the keyboard and styles turned OFF and the player box is selected (blue) - so only the song is affected by the hardware transpose buttons.
This is the scenario I use.

However, on the Pa4x the score continues to show the original key even after I have lowered it 4 semitones (C to Ab). My Yamaha Tyros 5 transposes the score too. So I can mute channel 4 (which is the melody channel of most midis) and I then I can play the melody line with my right hand. And if I have lowered a song from C to Ab, the score now shows the song and the melody line in Ab.

The Korg Pa4x continues to show the score in the original key (C) even though it is now playing the song in Ab. I do not want to use the first option (yours) because it feels weird to be hearing the song in Ab and know that I have to play it in the key of C. (I do not have perfect pitch yet I can "feel" a difference in the tonal colors).

I hope this clarifies what I am missing on the Pa4x.
Thanks for your response.

[Sam CA]

Yes, I was talking about the first option but now I understand your concern.
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Sam

[Jonyblues]

Hi bobeld, am not sure if you've solved your problem with this but as I remembered your post from a few months ago, I thought that I'd look into how I would go about solving the problem (as I think that a solution would be useful for anyone that plays along with Midi files).

FYI, I was a little confused from the original thread about the problem that you have hearing one key and playing in another but I'll skip that issue for the moment and focus on the notes displayed on the score, which seems to be the main issue.

From what I understand, part of your problem is as follows:

If you have a midi file written in (example Ab) but you want to play along in the key of C, you can, as you suggested, simply transpose the keyboard (using the main panel buttons down i.e. -4 semitones). But, as you said, even though you can happily play along in C you can't follow the notes/score because it is still written in Ab.

I therefore looked at the global transpose options (i.e. not having the player transpose option or the midi notes option selected etc.) but as you'd already found out that doesn't solve the problem.

The solution for me (and I hope that it solves your problem too) is:

a) Open the midi file in the sequencer.
b) Press the Menu button on the keyboard
c) Press Song Edit
d) Go to the Transpose Tab at the bottom of the screen
e) Select the Track button (Use 'Select all' from the dropdown menu if you want to transpose the complete midi file)
f) Then select the Value that you want (i.e. +8 )
g) Press Execute
h) Save the file

Now, when you open the new file in the player, the midi file will play in the new key and the score will display in that key too.

So, now you can play along in the key of C and read the score, which is also in the key of C.

Fyi, once you have the midi file set up like this (and if you have the Midi player and midi notes transpose options enabled in Global), you can use the main transpose keys on the keyboard and this will change the midi file and keyboard up or down as desired. And, at the same time, the score will still be showing in your chosen key to play along with.

Having thought about why it didn't work in the way that you originally suggested it should, my answer is that as a player, if I change keys using the transpose buttons on the keyboard several times in a song, I wouldn't want to be reading the score in numerous different keys.

FYI, when playing around with this, the other thing that I liked is that you can use the pads as intros to files and/or supplemental elements to make a live mix throughout the song (and they play in the correct tempo too!).

Also, you can assign different parts of the midi files to the sliders and pull parts in and out. I.e. lots of possibilities, especially with Kaoss thrown into the mix too.

You can, of course, also do the midi file transposition in a DAW first or use some cheap/free Midi tweaking apps on the web, but I wanted to at least offer you a pretty simple (even though it may sound complicated) way of making all of the changes you need, directly in the PA4x.

Finally, in my view, the statement on page 98 of the manual that says "transposing the selected track does not affect the midi score" is wrong (when it is done in the way that I have described above).

I hope all of this makes sense and is of some use to you and anyone else that is using midi files as a backing track to play along with.

Best wishes,
Jon
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Korg PA4x, HX3 (B3 Sim module), Korg PA3x, Korg i2, Korg i40m, Roland AX-7, Roland FC300.

[BrianblueK]

Jon. that has been very helpful, I still have some questions though
1. Where you say "Save to file" do you mean "Save to song" that is what I see on screen
2.After (h) Save File I am still in SEQUENCER MODE, do I need to change this mode after "SAVING SONG for the new version

I have also seen a pop up screen asking informing me that by swithching modes will delete SONG from memory, I do not want to do that, Iguess, so need to be clear on this, where do I go.

Thans again, great havin help

[Jonyblues]

Hi Brianbluek, am glad you found my old post to be of help.

Am currently in S.E. England for a few weeks, without my kbd 😢 so will do my best to answer your questions based on memory (so, sorry if I'm a bit vague).

Re. Q1. If "Save Song" is the only menu option in sequencer mode, then, yes, that will definitely be the one to use.

Re. Q2. If you have completed all of your editing/tweaks to the midi file AND saved the song, then yes, it is fine to exit sequencer mode and use the standard song play mode to play the file (and view the score).

Finally, that warning message about deleting the song from memory is just a reminder that you definitely need to make sure that you have saved the song BEFORE you exit from the sequencer mode or you will lose all of the edits/changes you have made. I can't remember if it pops up even after you've saved the song but if it does, as long as you've saved your song, you're fine to exit that mode and go to any other mode/section of the kbd.

Hope this helps.
Best wishes,
Jon
_________________
Korg PA4x, HX3 (B3 Sim module), Korg PA3x, Korg i2, Korg i40m, Roland AX-7, Roland FC300.

[BrianblueK]

Thank you Jon for takeing the time to respond, hope I am not interupting your trip. I can see how this will work, however, I am doing a step too much or one step short so I will give you my step by step guide to what I am doing
1.Kbd in SEQUENCER MODE
2 Choose Midi score to be changed from SONG library
3.PRESS MENU button
4.PRESS SONG EDIT
5. TRACK...ALL
6. Value change to +1 from 0
7.PRESS...EXECUTE...
8 Are you sure?
9 YES
10 SAVE SONG....PRESS

From this point I am back on song selection page, still in SEQUENCER MODE I have an option to Locate or Import
I am assuming now that I will not see the score in SEQUENCER MODE if I choose that and the Import one is not needed

11 My next step therefore is to click on SONG PLAY, this takes me back to the default start up page

12 Click on SELECT, now in SONG MODE,
13 Click onSELECT
14 Screen now comes up with the chosen song
15 Click on SCORE, brings up score but no change has been made to the score

What have I missed or done wrong

I understand if you cannot reply right away since you are away from your KORG. I can see where you are going with this route but I am sure missing something obvious, probably but 83 yr olds do tend to miss something more often than they would like. The challenge of the KORG OS is a big step for me

[Bernie9]

If I remember correctly, the score remains the same, but accidentals are added.
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pa4x
Audya 76
Yamaha SX900
Hammond SK1

[BrianblueK]

Thanks Bernie, that being the case KORG have missed a trick but I believe Jon's method may work when I have sorted it, in the meantime, I am takeing a long route of Changeing the score key on Yamaha, recording it to SD minus the channels I want to record and in what key I want to read the music, not heard the finished result yet. Earlier I did try a similar route via Yamaha, Ithought I had it right, got the key on the score I wanted, played to USB but when transferred to KORG reverted back to originak key. I am more hopeful of the latest route and should know later today/to morrow. Thanks for your comments, appreciated, still learning

[Bernie9]

It is a shame because I love Korg's method of selecting the proper channel for melody scores. It is far superior to my Yamaha S970.
_________________
pa4x
Audya 76
Yamaha SX900
Hammond SK1