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CPU in Combi mode

 
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Cold Buffet King



Joined: 10 Oct 2017
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:09 pm    Post subject: CPU in Combi mode Reply with quote

I'm new to Kronos.

Can anyone help me please?

I play pop functions, so I want to have quick access for on the fly sounds, when set lists change mid gig.

Combi mode, I want to use it like a mixer. (Like LIVE mode on MUSE Receptor)

To have 4 pianos, 4 pads/strings and 4 Brass/lead all under 1 combi. Most on channel 1.

But I try this and the CPU just cannot handle more than 4 instruments before stealing and compromising the sounds.

Is what I'm after achievable on the Kronos in COMBI mode?

Why have 16 channels if you can't use them all?
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GregC
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Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 6011
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:17 pm    Post subject: Re: CPU in Combi mode Reply with quote

Cold Buffet King wrote:
I'm new to Kronos.

Can anyone help me please?

I play pop functions, so I want to have quick access for on the fly sounds, when set lists change mid gig.

Combi mode, I want to use it like a mixer. (Like LIVE mode on MUSE Receptor)

To have 4 pianos, 4 pads/strings and 4 Brass/lead all under 1 combi. Most on channel 1.

But I try this and the CPU just cannot handle more than 4 instruments before stealing and compromising the sounds.

Is what I'm after achievable on the Kronos in COMBI mode?

Why have 16 channels if you can't use them all?


change mute mode from " Studio " to Live as a 1st step
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voip
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Joined: 27 Nov 2014
Posts: 1165

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's worth taking a look at the effects. If each program in the Combi has a heavy effects payload, then that will eat up CPU cycles. There might be some mileage in reducing individual effects, if there are a large number, with a smaller number of total effects.

.
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exsequor699



Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Posts: 40

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also there is nothing wrong with sharing the same effects between programs.
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Cold Buffet King



Joined: 10 Oct 2017
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mute mode has helped.

Thanks.

So I guess I need to watch the perf meter and find ways of reducing CPU.

Switching between Combis may help.

I really wanted to use multiple keyboards in Combi Mode, but this polyphony issue limits the 16 channels.

Does anyone else crave more polyphony on the Kronos?
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GregC
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Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 6011
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cold Buffet King wrote:
Mute mode has helped.

Thanks.

So I guess I need to watch the perf meter and find ways of reducing CPU.

Switching between Combis may help.

I really wanted to use multiple keyboards in Combi Mode, but this polyphony issue limits the 16 channels.

Does anyone else crave more polyphony on the Kronos?


I think the perf meter shows voice stealing or voice borrowing ( as I call it).

And there is a priority check box that might help.

I would think managing your key range might help. If you ride the sustain hard, and have 4 acoustic piano programs, all running 88 keys in unison in a combi, that would force the Kronos to reserve a lot of voices.

IF you can clarify exactly what you would like to do, that might help on the advice.

Just a guess, SEQ mode might be an option. Or Set List might be an excellent solution as Korg's SST works well.
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19naia
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Joined: 29 Nov 2012
Posts: 632

PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Turning off "level meters" helps if you are updated to/beyond the OS version where that was introduced to save more polyphony. Level meters disable is in Global mode.

Also each synth engine has it's own Polyphony rateing and some are rather low polyphony and already layered in program mode before being added to Combi for layering.
STR-1 has the lowest polyphony and CX-3 has the highest.
HD-1 is a high polyphony all in one synth engine. The more sounds you select from HD-1, the better.
HD-1 has pianos, strings and Brass/ensemble.
When i want to layer several guitars into one, i use one only from STR-1 and then layer others in from HD-1.

The programs come with 2 OSC and EXi comes with two EXi that can be layered in program mode. Some programs will have up to 4 layers deep. Velocity layers do not apply as true layers.
You can go in and try to thin out OSC or EXi layering in certain programs or substitute low polyphony engines with HD-1. Even HD-1 programs can be thinned out in program if OSC layering is unessecarily heavy.

Over all, Kronos *seems* rather weak on Combi polyphony power. Making 16 timbres seem rather pointless until you realize how well outfitted it is to control external devices with sounds that do not tax Kronos CPU.
By the time you tap into kronos potency with external midi devices, you will see that 16 timbres/midi tracks are hardly enough for what Kronos can manage. 16 midi channels is why 16 timbres is the benchmark in Kronos. Each timbre can have its own isolated midi channel. There just aren't more than 16 midi channels to be had even though you could put in 32 midi tracks. You can midi layer External devices on a single midi track without having to have another track open.

Pianos... If you are using SGX pianos, they have good polyphony but when you remember they can be churning through 5GB of samples and working the disk just to keep up from one note to the next, then polyphony issues are easy to have with 4 SGX pianos layered in a combi.
Play just the Berlin grand alone in one timbre and watch the light above the "disk"marking on the front panel -right side of the screen. You will see the disk activity light really buzzing like a busy bee.

Kronos has good polyphony, you just have to realize where it is being used and that begins with layers in program mode. The SGX pianos are top rate powerful pianos hard to beat. Maybe a few software pianos do a little better but also use more CPU and velocity layers. Hard to get that quality with less CPU power.

Of course, all the previous comments about FX still apply.

Kronos makes up for it ,well -by being well equipped to play external sounds from a computer or other midi synths. If you add Mainstage or Ableton Live to a computer and play via kronos, you can have all your Kronos timbres working for you as you want and begin to wonder why there are only 16 timbres when a good 32 would do better. Cool thing about running externals is one timbre can layer in several externals, they just need to share the same midi channel. So it is possible to have more than 16 layers played from kronos keys if you want. You just need to rig up External devices with the sounds you want. A mix of internal and exteranal sounds works.
Kronos has the means to more than make up for the constricting polyphony wall it can create. You can widen the area within the polyphony wall by thinning out program layers. Synths with better polyphony response in layer mode, are synths with thinner programs/patches to begin with.

If you are good at makeing HD-1 sounds with samples, you can resample a thick layered HD-1 program and insert that sample into on OSC of HD-1 and turn off the second OSC and turn off velocity layer "layer mode". Get you phat sound boiled down into one sample in one OSC. Thin soup with all the rich flavor. It is all in how you decide to cook it.
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Cold Buffet King



Joined: 10 Oct 2017
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks everyone.
Very helpful.
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psionic311
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Joined: 14 Nov 2014
Posts: 543
Location: Orlando, Florida USA

PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe Mike's video tip on how to KARMA to switch programs in a Combi may help:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OaglzcDoy0
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Bitflipper
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Joined: 24 May 2016
Posts: 107

PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Live Mode was the first piece of advice I got on this forum, and it made the difference between keeping my Kronos and dumping it.

I had the same idea as you: I wanted multiple EPs that I could quickly switch up from one combi, another for organs, another for synth leads, etc.

But I've accepted the fact that this CPU isn't the industrial-strength processor that I'm accustomed to having under my desk, and will always impose some limitations.

Instead of trying to do it all with monster combis, I got comfortable with the Set List view. I grouped all my piano, EP, synth and organ patches together so they can be selected quickly. I made a page just for songs that use multiple diverse patches, another page for transposed pianos. The Set List is arguably the coolest feature the Kronos offers.

Now, if only they'd figure out how to make it readable outdoors...
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