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jeremykeys Platinum Member
Joined: 19 Jun 2011 Posts: 3092 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:29 am Post subject: Trying to recreate B3 for live playing questions |
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Hi there all you big organ fans! Jeremykeys here trying another experiment. I'm wondering if this can be done and will work.
So far all I've done is a very basic experiment using 2 progs and a combi.
What I've done is to copy 2 different organ sounds onto the first to channels of the combi. I didn't copy any of the IFX, TFX or MFX from the second prog but I routed the second one through the IFX of the first channel.
With me so far?
I've got all the faders up full and from the control surface I can see that by having the Timbre 1 through 8 page I can turn each individual channel on and off with the mix/play mute buttons.
This way I can easily switch organ presets similarly to using the reverse colour keys at the left hand of a Hammond. The only thing is you have to press the button twice although if you want you can press to adjacent buttons if one if off and the other is on.
Of course the downfall of this is that you are limited to whatever you have in the IFX because ALl of your organ patches are going to be urn through that set.
Having said that though, it has occured to me that you could, say have your first 4 or so patches routed through the first set of IFX and the next 4 through a different IFX routing.
My question is this: Has anybody else experimented with trying to duplicate the "feel" of a Hammond in this way and if so, have you got any better solutions or ideas?
Thanks in advance once again!
Jeremykeys the Mad, and I do mean Mad; Scientist! Mwoo hahaha! _________________ If music is the food of love, play on and play loud!
Gear: Kronos 73, Triton Pro-X, Wavestation EX, Polysix, King Korg, Monotron and Monotron Duo, Minikorg, Moog Grandmother, 1 Roland U-20, Hammond M3, 4 acoustic and 6 electric guitars, 1 Ibanez 5 string bass, a bunch of microphones and other very cool toys, 1 wife and 3 cats! |
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geoelectro Platinum Member
Joined: 14 Sep 2012 Posts: 1038 Location: Texas
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:33 am Post subject: |
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I am a Hammond Organ tech and have played them for decades. I play my Kronos at church. When I am in “Hammond mode”, I don’t use any presets, I just use the “drawbars” live, like I would on a real Hammond. SW 1 and SW 2 are for percussion and vibrato on and off.
I run it mostly dry other than some EQ to a Ventilator, then back into the audio ins. I like your idea though.
Also a madd scientist...
Geo
https://www.dropbox.com/preview/Public/VID_20141031_185608_926.mp4?role=personal _________________ Kronos 61 : 3GB RAM 120GB 2nd Drv.
Kronos 2 61
Synthesizers.com Custom Modular
N.I. Komplete 11, Omnisphere 2, VB-3.
HP i7 8GB Win 10
Yamaha P-80 Weighted Keyboard. NanoPad2 |
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JPROBERTLA Senior Member
Joined: 04 Jul 2011 Posts: 483 Location: New Orleans
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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I do almost the same thing as the previous poster. I have 6 basic set ups: 2nd and 3rd harmonic percussion, clean and dirty amps and vibrato/chorus types. I also use a second rotary speaker in the insert FX (this method was posted a few years ago by someone else on the forum) it adds a lot to to the rotary speaker effect. Then I use the drawbars live with SW1 for vibrato/chorus and SW2 for percussion. I perform a lot and play organ about 33% of the time. This works very well, and with your own personal taste applied, should be good enough to not warrant a second keyboard (organ) on stage. _________________ JP
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Kronos2-88, Behringer XR18, Turbosound IP2000 (x2), dbx DriveRack 260, KRK Rokit 8s, Mackie CFX16, Mackie SRM450(x2), Mackie SRS1500 (x2), BBE processors (x4), Roland VSR 880 (x2), Alto TS210, Alto TX10 (x3) and SoundForge |
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JPROBERTLA Senior Member
Joined: 04 Jul 2011 Posts: 483 Location: New Orleans
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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I do almost the same thing as the previous poster. I have 6 basic set ups: 2nd and 3rd harmonic percussion, clean and dirty amps and vibrato/chorus types. I also use a second rotary speaker in the insert FX (this method was posted a few years ago by someone else on the forum) it adds a lot to to the rotary speaker effect. Then I use the drawbars live with SW1 for vibrato/chorus and SW2 for percussion. I perform a lot and play organ about 33% of the time. This works very well, and with your own personal taste applied, should be good enough to not warrant a second keyboard (organ) on stage. _________________ JP
_________________________________________
Kronos2-88, Behringer XR18, Turbosound IP2000 (x2), dbx DriveRack 260, KRK Rokit 8s, Mackie CFX16, Mackie SRM450(x2), Mackie SRS1500 (x2), BBE processors (x4), Roland VSR 880 (x2), Alto TS210, Alto TX10 (x3) and SoundForge |
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gnbutt Senior Member
Joined: 14 Dec 2005 Posts: 259 Location: Thunder Bay, Ont. Canada
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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Hello Jeremy !, I was luckily enough to own a Hammond B3 and Leslie 122, then a Leslie Pro 900 for over 25 years. I do not own a Kronos and my Krome does not have any drawbars, it certainly will never replicate a Hammond B3 and Leslie. After really missing my B3, I bought a Hammond SK2 from Long & McQuade and a mini-vent for organ too. What a keyboard it is, but over $4K spent too CDN. If you are happy with your settings, that's what counts. I still maintain that there is nothing like that authentic rotating speaker cabinet and a B3, many new keyboards are getting really close sound wise, its getting hard to tell the difference these days. The Hammond B3 was a pretty awesome looking unit on the stage too ! Graydon _________________ M3-73, Roland Fantom X8, Motif ES7, OMNISPHERE VST and my baby, an old Fender Rhodes 73. Hammond SK2 with Neo Mini-Vent for Organ, Korg Krome 61 with Vintage Synth collection + DSKrome, Killer Organ Package
Roland FA-06 |
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JPROBERTLA Senior Member
Joined: 04 Jul 2011 Posts: 483 Location: New Orleans
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with the previous poster regarding comparing a real B3 and Leslie to anything else. I had a C3 and a 122 for many years. But now that I am having to transport my own equipment, that is out of the question. A Kronos (and probably a few other synths) when programmed/tweaked properly sounds so close to a miced B3 and a Leslie through a proper sound system with the rest of the band playing, that the difference is, for all practical purposes, unnoticeable. _________________ JP
_________________________________________
Kronos2-88, Behringer XR18, Turbosound IP2000 (x2), dbx DriveRack 260, KRK Rokit 8s, Mackie CFX16, Mackie SRM450(x2), Mackie SRS1500 (x2), BBE processors (x4), Roland VSR 880 (x2), Alto TS210, Alto TX10 (x3) and SoundForge |
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gnbutt Senior Member
Joined: 14 Dec 2005 Posts: 259 Location: Thunder Bay, Ont. Canada
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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Rick Wakeman who I recently saw live in Toronto last month, used a Korg Kronos 2 for "Roundabout" a classic Yes anthem thick with rock organ, obviously he or a programmer was able to tune in or design a B3 Hammond sample with C3/V3 chorus, sure sounded fantastic to my ears. If I had my eyes closed, I probably could not have heard the difference. I am sure he must have been happy with it, the audience sure was. _________________ M3-73, Roland Fantom X8, Motif ES7, OMNISPHERE VST and my baby, an old Fender Rhodes 73. Hammond SK2 with Neo Mini-Vent for Organ, Korg Krome 61 with Vintage Synth collection + DSKrome, Killer Organ Package
Roland FA-06 |
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Derek Cook Approved Merchant
Joined: 20 Jul 2014 Posts: 1279 Location: Wales, UK
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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Rick also usually has an SK on stage and one thing you need to watch with his rig is that just because he is playing a board, it doesn't mean that that board is making the sound.
I'm not saying that you didn't hear a Kronos, just ovbserving that you can never be sure with Rick _________________ Derek Cook - Java Developer
Follow kronos.factory development and submit ideas over at the kronos.factory Trello Board
My Echoes Music Website
My Carreg Ddu Music Website |
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gnbutt Senior Member
Joined: 14 Dec 2005 Posts: 259 Location: Thunder Bay, Ont. Canada
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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That is very true, he does have a Hammond SK1 in his arsenal of keyboards playing live. I sat in the 2nd floor Gallery front row and only saw him use the SK1 on 1 occasion and it was a regular sounding organ maybe 4 full drawbars on slow speed (Leslie). The main Hammond B3 solo's were definitely on the Kronos 2. As a keyboard guy myself, I watched his every move during the live performance. The two Kronos's in his rig, however, did a lot of other combo's too like grand piano with strings, chorus, pads and orchestrations with choirs. He would switch things up after every song. No doubt that he assigns his performance library depending on the keyboard he prefers to use and does not have to stretch to far to play. _________________ M3-73, Roland Fantom X8, Motif ES7, OMNISPHERE VST and my baby, an old Fender Rhodes 73. Hammond SK2 with Neo Mini-Vent for Organ, Korg Krome 61 with Vintage Synth collection + DSKrome, Killer Organ Package
Roland FA-06 |
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JPROBERTLA Senior Member
Joined: 04 Jul 2011 Posts: 483 Location: New Orleans
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Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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There are a couple of youtube videos where he explains his keyboard set up in some detail for the ARW tour. It is worth watching. Easy to find, just search Rick Wakeman. _________________ JP
_________________________________________
Kronos2-88, Behringer XR18, Turbosound IP2000 (x2), dbx DriveRack 260, KRK Rokit 8s, Mackie CFX16, Mackie SRM450(x2), Mackie SRS1500 (x2), BBE processors (x4), Roland VSR 880 (x2), Alto TS210, Alto TX10 (x3) and SoundForge |
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Scott Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Oct 2009 Posts: 1015
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Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:30 am Post subject: |
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gnbutt wrote: | That is very true, he does have a Hammond SK1 in his arsenal of keyboards playing live. I sat in the 2nd floor Gallery front row and only saw him use the SK1 on 1 occasion and it was a regular sounding organ maybe 4 full drawbars on slow speed (Leslie). The main Hammond B3 solo's were definitely on the Kronos 2. As a keyboard guy myself, I watched his every move during the live performance. The two Kronos's in his rig, however, did a lot of other combo's too like grand piano with strings, chorus, pads and orchestrations with choirs. He would switch things up after every song. No doubt that he assigns his performance library depending on the keyboard he prefers to use and does not have to stretch to far to play. |
Also, though, according to an interview, he has a lot of MIDI stuff going on. There's no way to be sure that, when he plays the Kronos "organ," you're not sometimes actually hearing the SK1. There was quite a point made of the fact that you can't tell what instrument is making a sound based on where his hands are. |
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Derek Cook Approved Merchant
Joined: 20 Jul 2014 Posts: 1279 Location: Wales, UK
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Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:02 am Post subject: |
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Scott wrote: | gnbutt wrote: | That is very true, he does have a Hammond SK1 in his arsenal of keyboards playing live. I sat in the 2nd floor Gallery front row and only saw him use the SK1 on 1 occasion and it was a regular sounding organ maybe 4 full drawbars on slow speed (Leslie). The main Hammond B3 solo's were definitely on the Kronos 2. As a keyboard guy myself, I watched his every move during the live performance. The two Kronos's in his rig, however, did a lot of other combo's too like grand piano with strings, chorus, pads and orchestrations with choirs. He would switch things up after every song. No doubt that he assigns his performance library depending on the keyboard he prefers to use and does not have to stretch to far to play. |
Also, though, according to an interview, he has a lot of MIDI stuff going on. There's no way to be sure that, when he plays the Kronos "organ," you're not sometimes actually hearing the SK1. There was quite a point made of the fact that you can't tell what instrument is making a sound based on where his hands are. |
That was my point, after watching the same video a few months back. _________________ Derek Cook - Java Developer
Follow kronos.factory development and submit ideas over at the kronos.factory Trello Board
My Echoes Music Website
My Carreg Ddu Music Website |
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