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Volca FM Operator Issue
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OpAmp
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Joined: 07 Jun 2013
Posts: 1173
Location: Brussels, BE

PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Eamoex,

About the PCB layout and crosstalk. Yes this could be. Alone, that seems to me a problem of designs of the 80s Wink Back then you had several instances of the same circuit IC to get something done. E.g. one IC per operator which are then connected to each other through other ICs.
I mean, I would expect they these days have one big DSP where each operator is calculated on and merged according the selected algorithm. So the sound is completely numerically calculated and only in a last step converted to the real analog world... So no crosstalk at all. I saw on youtube someone doing a tier down of the FM. Unfortunately he did not really zoom in on the main PCB...

Clicky feel, yep, probably as you say, due to cutting of on of the voices to launch a new one. Not much can be done on that, only 3 voices in this box. What might help a bit is to increase EGR4 (less release) of the operators that are configured as carrier.

And indeed a LP filter may cut out the clicks to some extend, but will also cut the high frequencies you may look after... Sad

Bye.
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microKORGXL, Kaossilator Pro, monotribe, SQ-1, volca fm, Kross 88 BK
Alesis SR18, Akai Miniak, Fender Strat, Line 6 Spider II 112, Zoom MS-50G
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Eamoex



Joined: 07 Aug 2016
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey OpAmp!

Yep, I've cracked mine open to check MIDI-modability and, I have to say there's not much in there. So you must be right. Which is good because it would confirm the firmware-fixable nature of the fault.

Plus, I've learnt a little bit more about the differences between analog and digital circuits with your comment, so thanks for that too! Very Happy
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hanzde



Joined: 17 Jul 2015
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi
i dont see the problem why turn all operators off?
this unit is made to make sounds Rolling Eyes
i dont try it myself but i have no problems with noise or whatever
so if u want silence turn the volca off lol
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OpAmp
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Joined: 07 Jun 2013
Posts: 1173
Location: Brussels, BE

PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hanzde,

You are right, if all operators are off, you better switch the unit off Wink

It is more a problem that when you choose an algorithm that does not use all operators and e.g. gradually fades in that you might hear unwanted clicks of the other operators...

Bye
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microKORGXL, Kaossilator Pro, monotribe, SQ-1, volca fm, Kross 88 BK
Alesis SR18, Akai Miniak, Fender Strat, Line 6 Spider II 112, Zoom MS-50G
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hanzde



Joined: 17 Jul 2015
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i see i have the same problem maybe its somethere in the all parameters

Last edited by hanzde on Tue Oct 11, 2016 5:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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subbz2k



Joined: 27 Oct 2016
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The reason why where's still sound if all Operators are off is because of the Pitch Levels. Turn all Pitch Levels down and you hear no sound at all anymore. Dont ask me why though Very Happy I just messed around with the Volca for some minutes now and i dont even know what those Pitch Rates and Levels in the ALL Settings Area actually do.

A good explanation of what all the different Settings actually do would be perfect. I got the Volca FM today and wanted to start from scratch ... now i rather scratch my head because i dont know what all those options do and how they work together Very Happy

Korg should create a more proper manual for this little thing.
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papoon



Joined: 04 Nov 2016
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi I just purchased a Volca FM a week ago and from the first time I powered up it made a clicking sound just as I hit the power (Korg power supply) and it comes to life. Well I thought not a big deal I could live with that and moved on to playing with it and programming.
Last night I was working on a patch (programming operators) and started hearing this strange click, ok, I thought probably the way I have one of the envelopes set.
I tried to resolve it but to no avail. So I started to turn off all the operators one by one just to trouble shoot and then turned down all the envelope knobs and finally I turned the velocity and pitch slider all the way down.
So to be clear I have all the operators set to 0 or off and both sliders all the way down, I would think I should get no sound at all. But instead I could get sounds (synth voice) intermittently when I hit the key bed on the Volca and also a click once in a while.
I am new to FM but have some experience with synths, just curious am I doing something wrong or is there something wrong with my unit? should I hear anything with all the operators/modulators turned off? I checked and the unit has 1.02 version.
I understand the point made that "why turn all the operators off" so I may be covering some things already posted on this thread but wanted to be clear how I got to the point of and why I turned them all off. So one would think based on what I described above what would be making clicks or sounds.
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OpAmp
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Joined: 07 Jun 2013
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Location: Brussels, BE

PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2016 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi papoon,

Basically nothing new...

The click at power-on is simply due to power on. Even if the volume is turned down if I'm not mistaken. It is due to caps and circuits getting loaded at power on. This is not Volca FM specific. Other Korg product suffer from it as well. Special circuitry is needed to throttle the rush-in current at powerup to get rid of this.

The synth voices that you still hear while operators are of is due to bugs in the DSP software (see the previous messages in this thread). You can get rid of it by changing the oscillator to fixed frequency mode and turning the pitch down. It will results in low frequency oscillators, that you ar physically not able to hear any more.

The clicky feel during playing is due to the voice limitations to 1 or 3 voices. When a voice is fading out, and you hit another key, the Volca FM cuts the previous voice in a drastic way to reuse the voice for the new key, causing the click. With a software update this could be wiped out a bit.

So to me, your unit is just fine, it just has some ennoying limitations.

Bye
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microKORGXL, Kaossilator Pro, monotribe, SQ-1, volca fm, Kross 88 BK
Alesis SR18, Akai Miniak, Fender Strat, Line 6 Spider II 112, Zoom MS-50G
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demuxe



Joined: 15 Jul 2017
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I confirm that I get sound even with all operators turned off.
This behaviour looks confusing and incorrect to me, but I'm still a bit new to FM synthesis.

Similarly to what OpAmp suggested, the most effective way not to get any sound or modulation from an operator seems to disable it (or set "Volume Output" to 0) AND set its "Oscillator Mode" to "Fixed" rather than "Ratio"; it looks to me that other parameters like Coarse, Fine and Detune play a role, but maybe they're not as determinant as Oscillator Mode.

The other workaround suggested above (turning all Pitch Levels down) seems to attenuate the sound for some combinations of pitch/velocity/algorithm only.
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ConenRuam



Joined: 09 Nov 2017
Posts: 1
Location: Scotland

PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

I am experiencing the clicking on NOTE ON , and am VERY interested in whether or not a firmware update can address the clicking issue, because I'm afraid if it can't, the unit it unusable to me.

I think it has great potential, but the way I want to use it is to have mellow sounds/sounds with slow attack arpeggiated/sequenced by the Volca, and there is FAR too much clicking going on to do this without extensive surgical editing after recording it, which I can't be bothered with. As it's ambient style, the clicks do not sound good at all, and if you look at the recorded wave, there are huge spikes when these clicks occur, which are also loud enough in volume to mask a lot of the actual tone itself.

Unfortunately I'll have to sell it if there's no remedy, as I can't use an instrument that behaves like that, especially going through lots of effects like I do, as the clicks send reverb/delay spikes all over the place, and to it sounds bad. It wont be this much of a problem for everybody, I know that, but I would be willing to bet that the Yamaha Reface DX wont behave like this, so that's probably the way I'll go.

My thoughts on it is that it's to do with the envelopes rather than voice stealing, as i have heard exactly the same thing from a number of Korg synths -

- Monotribe
- Volca Keys
- Volca Bass
- Minilogue
- Electribe 2

I sold the Monotribe as the clicking was so bad, am putting up with it with the Volca Keys, I read that the issue has been resolved for the Minilogue with a software update, and have also read numerous complaints and have watched Youtube videos about clicking with the new Electribe...

These clicking issues I don't believe were due to voice stealing.

When my Volca FM is playing an arpeggiated line, it makes no difference how long/short the decay is, the clicking is always on onset of a new note, and the only way you don't hear the click is if the attack of the note is full enough in sound that it masks it. Unfortunately , this leaves a wealth of sound design options that use a quieter attack to be unusable. Changing the voice mode makes no difference either, same whether in MONO, POLY or UNISON.

It's such a pity
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