Korg Forums

[GregC]

http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=62564

The above topic touches on the issue and discusses Combi mode. Difficult to conclude.

Anyway, more or many of my SEQ Songs use 16 midi tracks.

I like using the beefier, FX loaded Programs for my tracks. And Karma.

Also copy Orchestra combis in and ambient drum programs. Program examples
are the Mod 7 guitar and the Berlin piano/orchestra program. And drawbar organs. Using at least 4 engines at the same time.

When I am at creating the last few tracks in SEQ mode is when I am maxing/exceeding polyphony. The performance meter in the red isn't bothering me, its the popping noises and note cut offs that are bagging my time and work flow.

As a result, I attempt to find Programs in HD 1 and back off the FX.
This is limiting, time consuming etc.

While adding the last 2 for 3 tracks, usually 12 or 20 measures, I am experimenting in muting Program tracks/timbres that were previously used. And those are not needed for the last 2 tracks, for example.

The experiment or my steps: I am on midi track 16 wanting to use a complex Program with FX. I know exactly what to play and ready to REC. Before I REC, I know and have determined that I have a major Polyphony problem. I mute 6 or more other midi program before pressing Start REC.

I was hoping that the Kronos Polyphony God would notice the muted tracks and not attempt to ' reserve ' Polyphony notes for them. I am not sure this muting actually works. It might help, just not sure. I don't get a perfect result.

A technique explained by Mike Conway showed how to change Programs ' on the fly' or while Recording is clever. I find it problematic to have 5 or more steps involving button pushing to do this, lets say, in a 4 bar countdown measure plus an existing preceding measure. I find that extra activity distracting as I am getting ready to play a new part. I have a lot going on with my Songs, I need to come in on time, play the exact notes, yada yada yada.

IOW I am not jamming around and experimenting with 4 or 5 tracks. I have a + 100 bar Song, multiple tracks, organized and fine tuned and I am approaching the finish line At midi track 16.

An alternative is to convert some beefy Midi tracks to audio WAV files. I believe WAV files are easy on Polyphony. The work flow on doing this is tedious/time consuming. Plus some Programs sound better on Midi vs a WAV. For example, basic drum tracks are good candidates for WAV files.

I know this is a long post. Wanted to give enough context on my REC process using the SEQ

Thank you for your advice.
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Kronos 88. MODX8
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[Mike Conway]

How do I handle polyphony???? I usually use a 2nd, 3rd, and even 4th synthesizer to help with polyphony load. There's a reason I don't sell my OASYS. Then again, I started in the days where poly was 16 note or less, so I've always done that. If that is not possible, read on.


First order of business, go to GLOBAL and turn the Level Meters to off. Set MUTE mode to Live. Next up, keep in mind which engines you are using. Polyphony from most to least:

CX-3: 200 voices
PolysixEX: 180 voices
HD-1: 140 voices
EP-1: 104 voices
SGX-2: 100 voices*3

AL-1: 80 voices

MOD-7: 52 voices

STR-1: 40 voices
MS-20EX: 40 voices


Next, is to be aware of the programs themselves. Is Unison on or off? With 16 programs running in a mix, you probably don't need it.

Biggest offender - a sustain pedal! Make sure it is used only when needed. Some things you can do in Sequence TRACK PARAMETER settings.

Set a limit on MAX # OF NOTES. Some programs have a long decay.

If you don't need both oscillators of a program, set OSCILLATOR SELECT to OSC1 or OSC2.

Check TRACK PRIORITY for programs you don't want to cut off.


Gong back to HD-1. Use MONO, instead of STEREO multisamples. One oscillator can have 2 stereo layered multisamples. If you set a velocity crossfade between soft velocity and hard velocity multisamples, that can use up to 8 voices of poly with just one oscillator (16 with two).

Wavesequences are usually crossfading, so if you have 2 layered stereo Wavesequences, instead of multisamples, in the above scenario, you could be using 16 voices of poly, with just one oscillator. Yes, 32 voices used on a dual oscillator program, playing with one finger. Forget the sustain!

By the way, cross-switched velocity will not overlap low velocity and high velocity multisamples. On the PROGRAM - OSC/PITCH page, you can set the XFADE RANGE parameter to off. That way a mono multisample with 8 cross-switch layers, still only plays one note, with one finger pressed.

[Mike Conway]

Just to follow up on the second or third keyboard idea. I did one project where I used the Roland Fantom sequencer. It also had handy + and - 3 octaves buttons, so I could split 3 different sounds across the 128 virtual keys of a single keyboard. This could give me up to 48 sounds, without making any program changes.

Not to mention, I was using about a dozen synths, so I could layer where I wanted. I was using everything in this pic. And, just because it was the Roland sequencer, it had phrase tracks, which meant I could play 16 tracks MIDI out to the OASYS, Tritons, Virus, etc., plus I could set another 16 tracks to play just internal sounds on the Fantom. So that added another 16 programs. It was a massive set!

My point being, using an Integra7, or a K2, or whatever second unit, could solve all your issues. Plenty of polyphony, layers, and more FX. Of course, the DAW will do it, also. Me, I like everything unfreezed, in realtime MIDI mode, so I often use two or three synths. Not that the Kronos can't do complicated songs by itself, that just takes a bit of planning.

[GregC]

Thanks, Mike, excellent strategy to preserve Kronos Polyphony for when I need it.

I am stingy with sustain. I even narrow my key range for certain programs
For some reason, the priority check box has not been much help.

anyway, I was arriving at the same conclusion- get a 2nd keyboard. I bumped into a used Fantom X , which has a SEQ that I desired for recording. I finally realized the FA-06 was many times better- thats now on my wish list.

In addition, I have MS and Omnis to get into.

I have been a minimalist for some time, and now at the point to stretch out.

My thoughts are to use Kronos for its unique Programs/Combis/Karma.

Use the Fa-06 and/or MS for the bread/butter stuff like bass, guitar, certain orchestra instruments and reed ( where Kronos is average) . IOW, determine the strengths of each sound source and use them/mix them up to 32 midi tracks.

Your excellent advice will help me until I integrate all the instruments into a DAW (cubase)

Thanks !
_________________
Kronos 88. MODX8
Achieve your musical dreams
https://soundcloud.com/user-898236994

[Mike Conway]

I find that Roland sounds (thin-ish on my Fantom) mix very well with Korg sounds (thicker, generally). You'll love it.

[GregC]

[Dniss]

Make use of audio tracks.

In Song01, use say 4 midi tracks and record to Audio01. In Song02, import Audio01 and use also 4 midi tracks on top of it. Record those 4 midi tracks and Audio01 to ...Audio02. In Song03, import Audio02 and use also 4 midi tracks ...and so on.

You can always go back if you need to make changes.

[psionic311]

[Mike Conway]

Btw, I wasn't knocking the Roland sounds. I find that they mix really well in dense arrangements, because they aren't too full sounding.

[GregC]

[kronoSphere]

Out of topic but nevertheless : I just hope that the next big Korg workstation (if there is one...) will have, at the evidence, a complete and absolute compatibility with the Kronos.

To return to your post Creg : Sometimes when I see that I shall not have enough polyphony for my project/song : I mix and sample (as an exemple) all the strings parts (or some other specific instrumental parts) into the audio tracks 1 + 2. And if necessary some tracks mixed on audio tracks 3+4. Then for the vocals there are still 12 audio tracks.

A question of balance and I think that a second Kronos would be a good thing
but there is stil this inferno process of autorization code for the banks of sounds.... Damned !
_________________
trees are going fast.

https://www.lairdeparis.fr

Current Gear : Kronos 88 / Seaboard Rise / Triton Extreme / Sequoia / Motif Rack XS / TC Helicon voicelive rack /Awave 11 / Audio & VSTi plug-ins connected /wide touchscreen / iPad Pro 512.

[GregC]

[kronoSphere]

I agree with you Creg yes ! except on 1 thing : I think that limits are the best things that can happen for a composer. Working with limits opens creativity ( and not only in the mixing stage : even in the composition process)
_________________
trees are going fast.

https://www.lairdeparis.fr

Current Gear : Kronos 88 / Seaboard Rise / Triton Extreme / Sequoia / Motif Rack XS / TC Helicon voicelive rack /Awave 11 / Audio & VSTi plug-ins connected /wide touchscreen / iPad Pro 512.

[Mike Conway]

[GregC]