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My First Total Pa4X System Crash

 
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Jonyblues
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Joined: 01 Dec 2015
Posts: 133
Location: San Diego, California

PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:32 pm    Post subject: My First Total Pa4X System Crash Reply with quote

Hi all, sorry for the long post but I wanted to share news of my first full Pa4x crash.

Yesterday, while playing styles my kbd suddenly made a really loud high pitched noise, the style stopped playing and all functions on the screen and kbd were unresponsive. As soon as the sound/problem started, I switched on my phone video recorder to see if anything would resolve the issue (I have the recording, if anyone ever wants to see it).

I then pressed every single button to see if that would help and found that absolutely nothing worked. The main volume knob on the kbd was unresponsive too (i.e. the screeching sound could only be reduced externally (i.e. by turning down my mixer).

In order to be as thorough in my tests as possible, I also tried disconnecting all of the line inputs, line outs and foot switches/pedals. Absolutely nothing made any difference.

My only option was to switch off the kbd and re-boot.

The good news is that the kbd re-started OK and, so far (I haven't used it much yet), seems stable. The other good news is that this is the first time (ever since the pa4x came out) that the kbd has crashed.

Possible causes? Having learned some hard lessons about using/installing 3rd party styles on my old Pa3x (and how they can make the kbd very unstable, probably because they are not setup/progamed properly), I have been extremely cautious about installing anything new, until I got the core korg factory stuff/sounds set up and stable first. I also make regular backups before and after anything is installed/updated.

I did, however, for the first time, about a week ago, purchase some 3rd part sounds (not from Anthony or Qui, regrettably!) to test them out (FYI, they were from a guy demoing Pa sounds/sound packs on Youtube).

After I had loaded and tried them, I could tell instantly that they were absolutely awful/terrible/low quality, even though, surprisingly, I couldn't really tell that from the YouTube demo videos (which sounded OK, probably because he is a good pianist).

So, I immediately deleted them from the kbd (as I knew that I would never use them).

I'm not 100% sure how the delete system on the Pa4x works (or if there us a better way to clean up user-installed samples etc.) but I was hoping that all of the accompanying samples/multi-samples etc. would be deleted too (I did, however, find a drum sound on the kbd by the same guy (indicated by his initials), even though I didn't actually buy any drum sounds, which was really strange!

Anyway, I can't be 100% sure that these new sounds caused the problem and the total kbd crash BUT it is a big coincidence that about 1 week after installing and deleting them that my whole kbd went down (strange it took so long though).

I am going back to an old set but will keep you posted, if I have any other crashes. If I do have any more problems, I will probably be forced to go back to my clean backup that I made straight after installing v2.0 and v2.01.

Sorry for the long post but just wanted to let you know if you encounter a high pitched tone and the kbd locking up, that the only solution is to re-boot.

Also, be careful about the quality/source of external sounds styles, as they may (even if they are not apparent instantly) cause big issues with your kbd.

Finally, I knew that dodgy/incorrectly programmed styles could potentially cause problems/crashes/instability but didn't think that sounds would/could cause issues too.

In some respects, I hope that the problem was caused by the installation and deletion of those sounds, because if it wasn't, it means that the problem was something to do with the current OS, which will be much more worrying.

We all live and learn, I guess.

Best wishes,
Jon
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AntonySharmman
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jon , I've seen in the past 2 Pa3X messed up mobo software with corrupted STY/PCG files and not
actual bad programming and this can happen since PaSeries can't verify the parity/integrity of those
files , they just read model header code !
I haven't seen a similar case in Pa4X yet but all those Styles/Sounds around net are dangerous for
a very simple reason ... they are not made for Pa4X , and f.e. Pa800 stuff do not have the absolute
compatibility with latest models !
There is one simple secret when purchasing third-party Styles/Sounds/Libraries ... they must be
compatible only with your Pa model
and avoid all those "Pa800/Pa600/2X/3X/4X" claiming stuff !
I'm the only sound developer that I distribute resources targeting only specific models and each
Korg model has it's own exclussive resources , this is what all "merchants" should do !

Now about your case , as first buy a cheap UPS <=100W for your Pa4X gigs , this will exclude power
supply issues from your problems.
About deleting junk sample resources do the following :
- For deleting all custom samples
Follow path SOUND/RECORD/Upper screen menu "Delete" / all samples DK multisamples and save your SET
- For deleting specific multisamples/samples
Follow path SOUND/RECORD/Multisamples / browse multisamples that you want to delete , select delete
MS from upper screen menu and check box "delete unused samples too" , for each MS you want to delete.
Go to SOUND/DK , find all junk User DKs and delete them , then Follow path SOUND/RECORD/Upper screen menu
"Delete" / second option "unused samples" and as last save your SET.

Hope this helps
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Keyboards : Steinway-D, Kronos X, Pa5X 76, Pa4X 76, Montage M7 , Roland-XV88, Emu3,Emax II,Synclavier II,Yamaha DX Series, ΟΒ-8V
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Jonyblues
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Joined: 01 Dec 2015
Posts: 133
Location: San Diego, California

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:34 pm    Post subject: Thanks Antony Reply with quote

Hi Antony, sorry for the delay in thanking you for your input, comments and guidance about deleting those samples. I also appreciate the information that you shared about the risks of loading/sourcing sounds and styles, which are not specifically designed for the Pa4x too. That's an important bit of advice for everyone to know.

Prior to your message, I deleted those 3rd party samples I'd purchased (maybe not thoroughly enough) and loaded an old set, however, my keyboard still crashed again (within an hour or two of playing) in exactly the same way.

Subsequently, I have now done a complete factory restore and also loaded an absolutely clean set that I created directly after my install of V2 and v2.01. I have then re-loaded my customized settings etc. from a previous backup set, while ensuring not to load any user sounds or user samples or user pads (which, coincidentally, I was experimenting with a day or so prior to the first crash).

So, at this point in time, everything is super clean on my kbd again and will keep my fingers crossed that I don't have any more crashes.

Once again, thanks for you help and guidance.

Best wishes,
Jon
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AntonySharmman
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Thanks Antony Reply with quote

Jonyblues wrote:
loaded an old set, however, my keyboard still crashed again
(within an hour or two of playing) in exactly the same way.

Loading an older SET , doesn't mean anything except if all resources had been made in Pa4X engine , this is the
only safe way that I do in my commercial libraries and also that's why I had never a crash in any PaSeries while
gigging , but I also always use a UPS that I also greatly recommend for your case too ... Wink
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PaSeries Demos - WavesArt.eu - KorgPa.gr <> Facebook

Keyboards : Steinway-D, Kronos X, Pa5X 76, Pa4X 76, Montage M7 , Roland-XV88, Emu3,Emax II,Synclavier II,Yamaha DX Series, ΟΒ-8V
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advid
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Location: London England UK

PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 4:33 pm    Post subject: reply..from PA900 user...... Reply with quote

.....just thought I'd reply to your 'crash /noise' problem...
The reason - I was out this afternoon doing a gig when my PA900 went down with a loud siren type single note noise.....this was also going through my PA so it was very loud.... Had to chat a bit while the faithfull PA900 booted up again..
This has happened to me both at home and now this is my third gig where it's occured over the four years I've be using my PA900...
It isn't always the same song or tune I'm playing...just seems intermittent so can't really understand what's causing it....
I used to use my Tyros4 and this never happened.... BUT like a lot of people on here ...once you play a Korg...Yamahas never really have that 'live' sound that is so important when playing gigs...makes all the difference (just my opinion as a user of both)....
This reply won't sort your problem out - just thought I'd reply ...Korgs are not foolproof......
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Jonyblues
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Location: San Diego, California

PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Advid, I'm really sorry to hear about your Kbd crashing too.

From your description of a single high-pitched siren-like sound, it sounds identical to the crash (ore at least the outward very loud sign of a crash) that my kbd did twice in two days.

As you can probably see from my previous posts, I have now done a complete factory restore, have re-loaded everything (from a previously saved set) that is 100% clean, have deleted the new sounds that included new samples/multisamples (that I bought a few days before the crash started), so now it's a matter of waiting and seeing if the crash re-occurs.

I really hope that it doesn't or it is a sign that either there is a OS problem or that there is a hardware fault (either of which problems are going to be a real pain!).

I was lucky that both of my crashes (a day apart) occurred while at home (rather than on a gig). I also had the chance to video the crash and to test to see if anything that I altered (buttons, connections etc.) made any difference. Unfortunately, having tried absolutely everything, the only solution was to re-start the kbd.

FYI, my kbd felt 100% stable prior to these crashes and the only 3 things that I had done a few days prior was:
1. I loaded some commercial sounds that I had purchased from a YouTuber selling sounds for the Korg Pa series.
2. I loaded some guitar sounds that had been shared on the Pa3x forum
3. I had been experimenting (for the first time) with the Pads edit/record functions on the kbd and had made/saved a couple of user pads.

I admit that I wasn't using a UPS (I have a new one being delivered on Monday), so there is a very slight possibility that that could be the cause (I doubt it) but overall I think that it may be something to do with either the newly installed sounds/samples or the Pad editing that I was experimenting with.

I know that your kbd is not a Pa4x but I'd be very interested (as it probably uses a very similar OS) to hear if you have any ideas/thoughts as to what might have been the cause of the crash in your case.

Best wishes,
Jon
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advid
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Posts: 180
Location: London England UK

PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:27 am    Post subject: reply.... Reply with quote

[quote="Jonyblues"]Hi Advid, I'm really sorry to hear about your Kbd crashing too.

From your description of a single high-pitched siren-like sound, it sounds identical to the crash (ore at least the outward very loud sign of a crash) that my kbd did twice in two days.

As you can probably see from my previous posts, I have now done a complete factory restore, have re-loaded everything (from a previously saved set) that is 100% clean, have deleted the new sounds that included new samples/multisamples (that I bought a few days before the crash started), so now it's a matter of waiting and seeing if the crash re-occurs.

I really hope that it doesn't or it is a sign that either there is a OS problem or that there is a hardware fault (either of which problems are going to be a real pain!).

I was lucky that both of my crashes (a day apart) occurred while at home (rather than on a gig). I also had the chance to video the crash and to test to see if anything that I altered (buttons, connections etc.) made any difference. Unfortunately, having tried absolutely everything, the only solution was to re-start the kbd.

FYI, my kbd felt 100% stable prior to these crashes and the only 3 things that I had done a few days prior was:
1. I loaded some commercial sounds that I had purchased from a YouTuber selling sounds for the Korg Pa series.
2. I loaded some guitar sounds that had been shared on the Pa3x forum
3. I had been experimenting (for the first time) with the Pads edit/record functions on the kbd and had made/saved a couple of user pads.

I admit that I wasn't using a UPS (I have a new one being delivered on Monday), so there is a very slight possibility that that could be the cause (I doubt it) but overall I think that it may be something to do with either the newly installed sounds/samples or the Pad editing that I was experimenting with.

I know that your kbd is not a Pa4x but I'd be very interested (as it probably uses a very similar OS) to hear if you have any ideas/thoughts as to what might have been the cause of the crash in your case.

Best wishes,
Jon[/quote]

...all I can suggest is - try to remember the style and setting that you were using when the 'crash' occured to see if it does it again...it coud be a bad style that's got a glitch...OR..in my case it has happened as a totally intermittent crash....no reason at all that I can fathom out....althought I do have some third party styles on board.....!
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