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D575 Platinum Member
Joined: 05 Aug 2013 Posts: 1201 Location: UK (Dorset)
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Bachus Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2006 Posts: 3127
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Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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Standards..
Its one of those things that make innovation go away... _________________ Korg Kronos 2/88 , Genos, Mainstage3 +VSTsu, ipad pro, GSi Gemini, Roland Integra 7, Jupiter Xm, Yamaha motif XS rack, Ketron SD90.
www.keyszone.boards.net |
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megamarkd Platinum Member
Joined: 15 Aug 2017 Posts: 635 Location: Australia
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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:15 am Post subject: |
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MIDI HD. Oh no, GM3....... How does adding "Hi Def" to anything make it better? The world is not a television!
I sorta remember reading it was on the way about a year ago. MMA have been trying to look active lately and have been making a bit of noise regarding the future of MIDI for some time now. It all sounds wonderful and like utopia is around the corner......
MMA need to pull their heads out of their collective arses and create a decent plug and play system the same way the computer industry did way back in the 90's. This would require all MIDI controllers to be updated for a new list of device def's and profiles every time the user adds a new instrument to their kit, but that shouldn't be hard in today's climate of mobile phones being computers. All it would require is all controllers now come with a USB host port....... BZZZT Yeah like that's going to happen without the price of the things going up by 50%. ROLI Seaboards probably already have 5 of them.
It's wonderful that companies like ROLI want to make MIDI great (again?) but they need companies like Roland and Yamaha to come along for ride, which historically they have not. But say they do, this time? This means that a "subtractive synthesiser" will have a particular profile and if your synth has more parameters than the MIDI profile, we are back at General MIDI again. CC's 15, 16, 17, 18 equal Attack, Decay, Sustain, Release, cool, but my synth has a Delay parameter before it's Attack and a second Decay not to mention it's a 4 osc mono.
A system akin to the pc world's plug and play would help stop this from happening. Essentially it's the same as the GM template thing, but it would mean that every MIDI instrument/controller will have a unique profile, not a generic, paper-doll profile waiting for a paper dress with tabs a, b and c.
I like to think these guys running these companies and writing the code are smarter than me and my idea has occurred to them also, just there is something that is stopping the UPnP concept from being a viable solution. Or maybe, it's actually what will happen this time. I live in hope. _________________ Stuff I'm using: Umm right now, well there's a Volca Drum, a Micro Freak, an ADX-1, a Pulse, a Blofeld, a UNO Drum, KeyStep/Beatstep Pro/Keystep Pro (one of each), a Circuit, a LiveTrak L-12 and this nonsense: The Brief-case as it was about a bit over a year ago (the the complete ridiculous GAS monster collection here)and here |
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Koekepan Platinum Member
Joined: 27 Sep 2016 Posts: 617
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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:12 am Post subject: |
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I'm OK with HD in the sense that parameters can be moved with less audible stepping; i.e. higher precision. 14 bits might be OK, but I'd be fine with 64 bit MIDI. It's not as if today's hardware couldn't handle the precision.
My concern is that they're going to replicate the biggest single design flaw of MIDI: not handling notes as separate events, rather than things that synths do when told. If they'd had that in the first place, we wouldn't need the silly workaround that is MPE.
I like the idea of USB for MIDI (and audio) but I think that the size of stages and setups motivates ethernet as the right choice. Even 1Gbps ethernet can carry a hell of a lot of audio across a switched network with perfectly reasonable latency (sub-millisecond). And at this point 1Gbps ethernet is dirt cheap.
Alas, at this point I'm coming to the sad conclusion that OSC is the protocol with more potential for the future. |
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Ksynth Platinum Member
Joined: 01 Jun 2009 Posts: 1225 Location: Northern California, USA
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megamarkd Platinum Member
Joined: 15 Aug 2017 Posts: 635 Location: Australia
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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:52 am Post subject: |
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Koekepan wrote: | I'm OK with HD in the sense that parameters can be moved with less audible stepping; i.e. higher precision. 14 bits might be OK, but I'd be fine with 64 bit MIDI. It's not as if today's hardware couldn't handle the precision.
My concern is that they're going to replicate the biggest single design flaw of MIDI: not handling notes as separate events, rather than things that synths do when told. If they'd had that in the first place, we wouldn't need the silly workaround that is MPE.
I like the idea of USB for MIDI (and audio) but I think that the size of stages and setups motivates ethernet as the right choice. Even 1Gbps ethernet can carry a hell of a lot of audio across a switched network with perfectly reasonable latency (sub-millisecond). And at this point 1Gbps ethernet is dirt cheap.
Alas, at this point I'm coming to the sad conclusion that OSC is the protocol with more potential for the future. |
I don't know why I got stuck in thinking in 7bit for the next iteration of MIDI, of course it'd be 14bit or more. I'm too used to being letdown by implementations of MIDI and totally ignoring any sort standardisation efforts when they are made. The prospect of getting smooth analogue-like parameter sweeps over MIDI just seems like a work of fiction after all these years of 128 increments.
Ksynth wrote: | And 5G wireless will be able to let us live without cables for the most part. I hope. |
Well CME are doing their Bluetooth controllers without DIN ports at all now, Yamaha have their wireless system, not to mention those ones coming out of small companies in former Soviet countries. I would love to remove the web of data cables that help contribute to the "what's that hum" paranoia....
Oh yeah, reading the original article on MIDI.org, they aren't calling MIDI HD. _________________ Stuff I'm using: Umm right now, well there's a Volca Drum, a Micro Freak, an ADX-1, a Pulse, a Blofeld, a UNO Drum, KeyStep/Beatstep Pro/Keystep Pro (one of each), a Circuit, a LiveTrak L-12 and this nonsense: The Brief-case as it was about a bit over a year ago (the the complete ridiculous GAS monster collection here)and here |
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BobTheDog Platinum Member
Joined: 21 May 2007 Posts: 1535
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megamarkd Platinum Member
Joined: 15 Aug 2017 Posts: 635 Location: Australia
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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:55 am Post subject: |
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Oh it was 4yrs ago....how time flies. _________________ Stuff I'm using: Umm right now, well there's a Volca Drum, a Micro Freak, an ADX-1, a Pulse, a Blofeld, a UNO Drum, KeyStep/Beatstep Pro/Keystep Pro (one of each), a Circuit, a LiveTrak L-12 and this nonsense: The Brief-case as it was about a bit over a year ago (the the complete ridiculous GAS monster collection here)and here |
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LM Full Member
Joined: 09 Oct 2017 Posts: 143
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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:16 am Post subject: |
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4 years ago... and it appears it's been under discussion for more than 10 years by now. |
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megamarkd Platinum Member
Joined: 15 Aug 2017 Posts: 635 Location: Australia
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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:48 am Post subject: |
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LM wrote: | 4 years ago... and it appears it's been under discussion for more than 10 years by now. |
And here I am trying not to be the naysayer, heheh. I remember mLan...that was open source too. _________________ Stuff I'm using: Umm right now, well there's a Volca Drum, a Micro Freak, an ADX-1, a Pulse, a Blofeld, a UNO Drum, KeyStep/Beatstep Pro/Keystep Pro (one of each), a Circuit, a LiveTrak L-12 and this nonsense: The Brief-case as it was about a bit over a year ago (the the complete ridiculous GAS monster collection here)and here |
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BobTheDog Platinum Member
Joined: 21 May 2007 Posts: 1535
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Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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I still have a Yamaha mLAN mixer here that sometimes gets used for live stuff, mLAN never worked though, total nightmare. |
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Koekepan Platinum Member
Joined: 27 Sep 2016 Posts: 617
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Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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Of all the touted features, plug-and-play operation is the least valuable to me.
Actually, scratch that. Wireless operation is a strong DO NOT WANT dealbreaker. As an option? Sure. And I will never, ever pay extra for it. I will always want a direct hardwired connection, because I do not want to be at the mercy of a prankster in a crowd of a thousand.
Plug-and-play comes under the heading of pointless predeterminations of things that you usually set once, then ignore.
Desperately needed: more than 16 channels. More than 7 (or even 14) bits. Notes-as-items, rather than notes-as-messages. At a stroke this would allow for silky-smooth control of arbitrarily complex synthetic orchestras without MPE-style workarounds that choke your limited available channels.
But given the previous mentioned up-thread, I fully expect MPE-style workarounds to be baked in, we-know-better-you-ignorant-prole-style plug-and-play crap, and a positive entrenchment of notes-as-messages.
Right now, MIDI is about as good as it gets, and that is deeply sad.
Maybe we can persuade Behringer to break the chains and produce an OSC studio environment? |
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iowagold Approved Merchant
Joined: 11 Nov 2013 Posts: 323 Location: in an alternate time line
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:38 pm Post subject: hd midi |
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hd midi
amen on the prankster!!
same on the mixers too for live on I pad...
as a software developer and a hard ware developer.
these are the things I think about!!
basic the security on any blue, wifi or any wireless yes even mics.
have been hacked or high jacked in live settings..
so what do you do???
STAY HARD WIRED!!
old school is the best....
yea some times rf gets in to hard wired too..
but these days the cables are getting better by the day..
now on to the new midi..
as long as the developers have the setup in the sound module
set to work with old midi 1.0 or the new protocol in the global settings
or the individual sounds...
that will work on my studio..
yes I use midi!!
I would be lost with out it too!!
nice to have 4 key beds to control over 30 sound modules....
that is in each studio room...
then if I need too I can I/O in to pro tools as midi to tweak the midi then bounce back to get a sound recording in pro tools from the module chain...
way too much rf on any wifi and blue and 2,3,4,5, g....
it can get congested in a closed area....
I limit to a basic wifi for setup...
then when recording I turn the wifi router off so the systems do not try to update during a session....
all that wireless rf is not good for a person anyway!!
at any rate
glad to see midi as a maybe return. _________________ my site klimaco.net
Current Gear: korg m3 expanded radias firewire 88 key Radias r on mat, korg radias r on mat on 61 key bed, Korg triton rack w 96mb ram scsi port, 5) korg RADIAS-R on big rack, korg kaossilator pro plus, 6) roland integra7, 4 Roland sc55, 2 roland sb55, 5) fostex 2016, behringer fx2000, 2) roland a800 pro, 2) roland a88 and 2) a49, roland juno, Doepfer MAQ 16/3, 2 Manikin Electronic Schrittmacher, most soft synths. cake walk all old and new versions.
3 schecter guitars, 3 elevenracks, most mxr effects, 2 zoom r24, avid pro tools 11.
MRT midi Breath Controller. 6 studio rooms. |
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megamarkd Platinum Member
Joined: 15 Aug 2017 Posts: 635 Location: Australia
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Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:12 am Post subject: Re: hd midi |
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iowagold wrote: | hd midi
basic the security on any blue, wifi or any wireless yes even mics.
have been hacked or high jacked in live settings..
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Robin Rimbaud would be in heaven, considering his Scanner act relies upon highjacking CB and mobile phone signals and incorporating them into his performance.
iowagold wrote: |
now on to the new midi..
as long as the developers have the setup in the sound module
set to work with old midi 1.0 or the new protocol in the global settings
or the individual sounds... |
This is my greatest fear with "MIDI 2.0", that the manu's won't support it properly. I can't help but point at the very beginning of it all. On one hand you had Dave Smith who is now running a small business making amazing synths that implement 14bit NRPN's for maximum resolution MIDI control. On the other hand you had Roland who had a huge business back then as they do now making synths, drum machines, organs, guitars, brass and wind instruments. Their MIDI implementation is woeful, even for their own version of it (designed to ruin compatibility with anyone else's idea on how MIDI should work).
This is why I am not expecting much at all even if the new standard is a 24bit protocol running on cat6 (though it would be nice if I am wrong about the support this time). _________________ Stuff I'm using: Umm right now, well there's a Volca Drum, a Micro Freak, an ADX-1, a Pulse, a Blofeld, a UNO Drum, KeyStep/Beatstep Pro/Keystep Pro (one of each), a Circuit, a LiveTrak L-12 and this nonsense: The Brief-case as it was about a bit over a year ago (the the complete ridiculous GAS monster collection here)and here |
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iowagold Approved Merchant
Joined: 11 Nov 2013 Posts: 323 Location: in an alternate time line
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Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:35 pm Post subject: midi hd |
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well as long as they have some sort of converter hardware from old midi to new midi hd I guess I am ok with it....
yes the new high bit rate is nice! but do we have the computers now to keep up with it???
that has always been the issue.... tech changes so fast...
hard to make the old stuff work with the new...
LOL that is why they need us the programmers and hardware guys!!
GRIN to make patches and adaptors to fix what the new changes broke!!
job security for sure!! _________________ my site klimaco.net
Current Gear: korg m3 expanded radias firewire 88 key Radias r on mat, korg radias r on mat on 61 key bed, Korg triton rack w 96mb ram scsi port, 5) korg RADIAS-R on big rack, korg kaossilator pro plus, 6) roland integra7, 4 Roland sc55, 2 roland sb55, 5) fostex 2016, behringer fx2000, 2) roland a800 pro, 2) roland a88 and 2) a49, roland juno, Doepfer MAQ 16/3, 2 Manikin Electronic Schrittmacher, most soft synths. cake walk all old and new versions.
3 schecter guitars, 3 elevenracks, most mxr effects, 2 zoom r24, avid pro tools 11.
MRT midi Breath Controller. 6 studio rooms. |
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