Korg Forums Forum Index Korg Forums
A forum for Korg product users and musicians around the world.
Moderated Independently.
Owned by Irish Acts Recording Studio & hosted by KORG USA
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Korg Kronos Headphone Monitoring/Routing when using USB

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korg Forums Forum Index -> Korg Kronos
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
brad arant



Joined: 04 Dec 2017
Posts: 5
Location: las vegas nv

PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:39 pm    Post subject: Korg Kronos Headphone Monitoring/Routing when using USB Reply with quote

Love my Kronos. Been using it for about 5 years now. Over the years I have tried using the USB only and recording to Cubase and Reaper. The issue is that I would like to use the headphone jack on the Kronos as my 'monitor' because of the extremely low latency while playing a new track. However, to hear the existing tracks so that I may play to them, I need to route the audio back into the Kronos via the USB and that causes the entire mix to reroute out through the USB and I get the old re-recording of the mix combined with my new track audio.

I currently bypass the problem by using an A/D converter like everyone probably does but I find this extremely disappointing as I would like to keep everything completely digital. Just sounds better to my sensitive ears.

I understand that the headphones are used to monitor the output of the Kronos audio path but... what would be super cool would be some way of having the headphones be able to monitor the USB inputs through the Kronos mixers but not route the USB input back to the output. I have read through message boards over the years on this issue but there seems to be no resolution. Only workarounds. Perhaps I am missing something but I have studied the audio path flows and looked low and high for a solution.

My thoughts are that a function on the USB in to 'monitor only' would allow me to use the Kronos as my sound card and maintain the cleanest connection possible.

Any thoughts on this issue?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Gunnar



Joined: 27 Jan 2016
Posts: 46
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Brad,

There is to my knowledge no way to do this as the headphones are tied directly to the L/R bus, which is the same as the L/R analog and USB outputs.

However, there is one solution (to use an external mixer) and a few hacks which can be made to work if you can live with the limitations :)

If you have an external mixer with at least 4 channels, plug Kronos L/R into Mixer 1/2 and Kronos 1/2 outputs into Mixer 3/4. Then under Global/Audio, route USB input to Output 1/2 (not L/R). I ran with this for a good while (while USB on OSX was still working) and it works wonderfully, and has the benefit of being a global setting, so it works regardless of which PROG/COMBI you are in. In the mixer you get both the sound from the computer and direct output from the Kronos into the mixer and from the mixer into headphones and/or to the speakers. And you still maintain a pure digital path from Kronos into the DAW which is the path that matters.

If you don't have an external mixer, it is going to be a bit less awesome, but you do the same as above, route USB Input into Kronos 1/2. Then plug your headphones into the Kronos 1/2 outputs. I did this only once, and I seem to recall the signal strength is on the weak side, so this is part of the lack of awesomness.. 1 and 2 are also mono outputs, so you need a cable to combine the signal into a stereo plug that matches the headset. Now, you'll hear the DAW playing back, but you have no monitoring of your own playing, because your own playing is going to L/R. You can fix this on a per PROG/COMBI/SEQ basis using some custom routing.
Say you are plaing PROG A000: KRONOS German Grand:
- Go to the Play->Common->IFX->Routing tab and set the FX Control Bus to "FX Ctrl 1"
- Under Play->Common->IFX->Insert FX, assign a "Stereo Limiter" to IFX 12, and change IFX 12's "bus select" from "L/R" to "1/2". This will change the limiter from going to L/R to instead go to 1/2.
- Under Play->Common->IFX->IFX 1-12, pick IFX 12 (which is your "Stereo Limiter") and set Source in the top-left corner to "FX Control 1" and check the "side chain monitor" checkbox. The wet/dry mix should be "wet".
You have now routed the piano into the effects bus (in addition to L/R) and picked that up with the limiter and re-routed it onto the 1/2 outputs, which gets mixed with the USB input. Downside is that this is now a per-program setting so it is quite tedious to work with, and IFX 12 might not always be available for use. And you have less control over the volume as the volume knob is bypassed.

Final option I can think of is to put cables from L/R into the analog inputs on the Kronos, then under Global/Audio route the analog inputs to 1/2 same as you did with the with USB input. This gives you DA and AD conversion for the monitoring path, but you still maintain a pure digital path from Kronos into the DAW which is that path that really matters.

Good luck :)
_________________
Gear: Korg Kronos 2 73, Arturia Microbrute, M-Audio Oxygen 49, Ibanez RG320DXFM Guitar, ESP Viper 254FM Bass, Blackstar HT-1
Software: Reaper, EZ Drummer
Previous: Korg X3, Roland RD-700, Novation Nova
Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/user-139189225
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
brad arant



Joined: 04 Dec 2017
Posts: 5
Location: las vegas nv

PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:05 pm    Post subject: Korg Kronos Headphone Monitoring/Routing when using USB Reply with quote

So you are indicating that the headphone outputs are physically connected to L/R output or is it a software routing issue? Was wondering if the engineers are listening as I see this as a design oversight for us small studio guys.

I have work around it with the mixer and all is fine but I do notice a drop in quality. I hear it as flatness whenever I go to analog and back to digital. Being able to stop this feedback in software and still use the monitoring headphones would solve many problems I have read about similar to this on the boards.

Thanks for the response. Jam on.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Gunnar



Joined: 27 Jan 2016
Posts: 46
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Korg Kronos Headphone Monitoring/Routing when using USB Reply with quote

brad arant wrote:
So you are indicating that the headphone outputs are physically connected to L/R output or is it a software routing issue? Was wondering if the engineers are listening as I see this as a design oversight for us small studio guys.


I don't know how the Kronos is wired, so I don't know if it is a software or hardware limitation. I suspect software, but I really don't know. I was only stating that Headphones == L/R == USB out, in terms of how the audio paths work :)

brad arant wrote:
I have work around it with the mixer and all is fine but I do notice a drop in quality. I hear it as flatness whenever I go to analog and back to digital. Being able to stop this feedback in software and still use the monitoring headphones would solve many problems I have read about similar to this on the boards.


hm.. This bit confuses me a bit. If you pick the path with the mixer I suggested above, would there be any duplicate conversion?

- For recording you have: Kronos USB Out -> DAW, pure digital
- For playback from DAW: DAW -> Kronos USB IN, pure digital
- For monitoring you have:
- Kronos itself: L/R analog -> mixer -> monitors & headphones
- DAW playback: 1/2 analog -> mixer -> monitors & headphones

So I assume that the mixer does not degrade the quality, I don't see where the loss could arise? A path from Kronos L/R -> mixer -> headphones should sound the same as Kronos Headphone out -> headphones, don't you agree? Or am I missing something? :?
_________________
Gear: Korg Kronos 2 73, Arturia Microbrute, M-Audio Oxygen 49, Ibanez RG320DXFM Guitar, ESP Viper 254FM Bass, Blackstar HT-1
Software: Reaper, EZ Drummer
Previous: Korg X3, Roland RD-700, Novation Nova
Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/user-139189225
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korg Forums Forum Index -> Korg Kronos All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group