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Krome sample set for the Kross

 
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jjbunn



Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:27 am    Post subject: Krome sample set for the Kross Reply with quote

If I have a sample set for the Krome, which is too big (16MB) for conversion to the Kross (max 8MB), is there a software tool that will allow me to remove unwanted samples from the set, so reducing its size?

I've looked at PCG Tools, Kromatic and a couple of others, but I can't see how to do this.

Thanks!
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dfahrner
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Joined: 21 Jun 2008
Posts: 506
Location: Terrebonne, OR

PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kromatic can do this - the rightmost "button" just under the Multisample Edit tab is "Remove", which can delete the highlighted multisample and all of its samples...I don't know how you can tell when you're down under the Kross 8MB limit, I guess you'll just have to keep removing multisamples/samples until KSTool can successfully make the conversion to Kross .img files...

There's an English version of the Kromatic manual now, which is helpful...Kromatic has always worked well for me (and KSTool in making the conversion, too)...

df
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jjbunn



Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dfahrner wrote:
Kromatic can do this - the rightmost "button" just under the Multisample Edit tab is "Remove", which can delete the highlighted multisample and all of its samples...I don't know how you can tell when you're down under the Kross 8MB limit, I guess you'll just have to keep removing multisamples/samples until KSTool can successfully make the conversion to Kross .img files...

There's an English version of the Kromatic manual now, which is helpful...Kromatic has always worked well for me (and KSTool in making the conversion, too)...

df


Thanks! I'm having some trouble with it. I load the samples in Kromatic, and then delete almost every Multisample in the set. Then I save the set.

If I look at the saved META.IMG file, it has reduced in size somewhat, but the SAMPLE.IMG file is the same size (16MB). Perhaps this is OK.

Then, if I load the set into KSTool, I see only the few samples I retained - so far so good, but always when converting Krome to Kross, it tells me the file is too big.

I'm also confused about the role of the PCG file - which doesn't appear to be used by either Kromatic or KSTool.
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dfahrner
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Joined: 21 Jun 2008
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Location: Terrebonne, OR

PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jjbunn wrote:
Thanks! I'm having some trouble with it. I load the samples in Kromatic, and then delete almost every Multisample in the set. Then I save the set.

If I look at the saved META.IMG file, it has reduced in size somewhat, but the SAMPLE.IMG file is the same size (16MB). Perhaps this is OK.

Then, if I load the set into KSTool, I see only the few samples I retained - so far so good, but always when converting Krome to Kross, it tells me the file is too big.

I'm also confused about the role of the PCG file - which doesn't appear to be used by either Kromatic or KSTool.


You may have to individually delete the samples used by the multisamples that you want to remove (using the Remove button under the Sample Edit tab)...I think the multisample is removed after all of its samples have been removed...???

I think the SAMPLE.IMG file is always 16MB, regardless of the size of the included samples...

When the Multisample Edit tab is selected, the green bar acrosss the bottom of the window is the only size indicator that I know of...so halfway across would be the maximum size for a sample set to be converted for the Kross, I guess...

A PCG file just tells the Kross what multisamples to use with which programs...after you get new multisamples loaded, and design new programs to use them, this info can be saved in a new PCG file...it's not used by Kromatic or KSTool, as you say...

We're all new at this, and probably always will be since this stuff is not well documented, and not officially from Korg, so you may become the expert after you figure out how to solve the problems...

df
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jjbunn



Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dfahrner wrote:
jjbunn wrote:
Thanks! I'm having some trouble with it. I load the samples in Kromatic, and then delete almost every Multisample in the set. Then I save the set.

If I look at the saved META.IMG file, it has reduced in size somewhat, but the SAMPLE.IMG file is the same size (16MB). Perhaps this is OK.

Then, if I load the set into KSTool, I see only the few samples I retained - so far so good, but always when converting Krome to Kross, it tells me the file is too big.

I'm also confused about the role of the PCG file - which doesn't appear to be used by either Kromatic or KSTool.


You may have to individually delete the samples used by the multisamples that you want to remove (using the Remove button under the Sample Edit tab)...I think the multisample is removed after all of its samples have been removed...???

I think the SAMPLE.IMG file is always 16MB, regardless of the size of the included samples...

When the Multisample Edit tab is selected, the green bar acrosss the bottom of the window is the only size indicator that I know of...so halfway across would be the maximum size for a sample set to be converted for the Kross, I guess...

A PCG file just tells the Kross what multisamples to use with which programs...after you get new multisamples loaded, and design new programs to use them, this info can be saved in a new PCG file...it's not used by Kromatic or KSTool, as you say...

We're all new at this, and probably always will be since this stuff is not well documented, and not officially from Korg, so you may become the expert after you figure out how to solve the problems...

df


Yes, you were right: the samples referred to by the multisamples have to be deleted, as well as the multisamples themselves. Once the green bar drops to less than half way, then the Krome to Kross save works.

I haven't received my Kross 2 yet, so can't confirm that the reduced size samples will load, but it looks promising!
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dfahrner
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Joined: 21 Jun 2008
Posts: 506
Location: Terrebonne, OR

PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, you first have to remove the multisamples and then you can remove the individual samples - you aren't allowed to remove samples that are still used by multisamples (I went back and read the Kromatic manual, duh)...

Somebody posted here that Kross 1 .IMG files (as produced by Kromatic/KSTool?) couldn't be loaded by Kross 2...let us know whether or not you're able to do this...

df
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castorex
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Joined: 06 Jun 2014
Posts: 117

PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If we consider that the flash memory size is different and the memory organisation/allocation certainly totally different... there is no reason to think that the Kross 1 IMG files are compatible with the Kross 2 !

And there is no sample bank or any tool available for the Kross 2 (even editor tool as for the Kross 1), so ... Rolling Eyes
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jjbunn



Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

castorex wrote:
If we consider that the flash memory size is different and the memory organisation/allocation certainly totally different... there is no reason to think that the Kross 1 IMG files are compatible with the Kross 2 !

And there is no sample bank or any tool available for the Kross 2 (even editor tool as for the Kross 1), so ... Rolling Eyes


OK I didn't realise there were nuances like this! I'll take a look at the .IMG file format from a Kross 1 and compare it with the Kross 2's (once I get it).
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castorex
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Joined: 06 Jun 2014
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The file extension format for sample is .KEP in the KROSS 2.
Nobody said or thought that the Boot process contains the extent IMG loader as for the KROSS !!! It makes no sense !
Why do you think you can find an IMG file for Kross 2 ???

The factory sample size is not the same (a little more than 112Mo... near 128Mo) and there is certainly no space for this 8Mo.

Even the PCG file format differs from the Kross 1.

You have to wait for official sample banks in KEP format to study the new format, and after that, to develop a tool for managing user multi-samples.

And this is certainly not the right toy to play with samples in this way...
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dfahrner
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Joined: 21 Jun 2008
Posts: 506
Location: Terrebonne, OR

PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

castorex wrote:
The file extension format for sample is .KEP in the KROSS 2.
Nobody said or thought that the Boot process contains the extent IMG loader as for the KROSS !!! It makes no sense !
Why do you think you can find an IMG file for Kross 2 ???

The factory sample size is not the same (a little more than 112Mo... near 128Mo) and there is certainly no space for this 8Mo.

Even the PCG file format differs from the Kross 1.

You have to wait for official sample banks in KEP format to study the new format, and after that, to develop a tool for managing user multi-samples.

And this is certainly not the right toy to play with samples in this way...

I'm sure there are differences in the Kross 1 and 2 memory configurations, PCG format, etc., but whether or not the Kross 2 can load Kross 1 IMG files? Only Korg knows, at this point...there never was any official documentation from Korg about this for Kross 1 (except for a description of how to load a few legacy and local sample IMG files, I think)...Korg could have included support for Kross 1 IMG files in the Kross 2 (they are just loaded into a small amount of volatile RAM, anyway) but since they've included another way add samples with KEP files, it may not have ben worth the engineering effort to maintain it...some Kross 2 owner could try to load Kross 1 IMG files (you're not going to damage anything, there's no "right" way here) and post the results...or ask Korg support...

df
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jjbunn



Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dfahrner wrote:
castorex wrote:
The file extension format for sample is .KEP in the KROSS 2.
Nobody said or thought that the Boot process contains the extent IMG loader as for the KROSS !!! It makes no sense !
Why do you think you can find an IMG file for Kross 2 ???

The factory sample size is not the same (a little more than 112Mo... near 128Mo) and there is certainly no space for this 8Mo.

Even the PCG file format differs from the Kross 1.

You have to wait for official sample banks in KEP format to study the new format, and after that, to develop a tool for managing user multi-samples.

And this is certainly not the right toy to play with samples in this way...

I'm sure there are differences in the Kross 1 and 2 memory configurations, PCG format, etc., but whether or not the Kross 2 can load Kross 1 IMG files? Only Korg knows, at this point...there never was any official documentation from Korg about this for Kross 1 (except for a description of how to load a few legacy and local sample IMG files, I think)...Korg could have included support for Kross 1 IMG files in the Kross 2 (they are just loaded into a small amount of volatile RAM, anyway) but since they've included another way add samples with KEP files, it may not have ben worth the engineering effort to maintain it...some Kross 2 owner could try to load Kross 1 IMG files (you're not going to damage anything, there's no "right" way here) and post the results...or ask Korg support...

df


Isn't KEP a format for holding PCM data? If so, then converting data in an IMG file to a KEP file should be possible, in principle, right? I see this download for an M3 http://www.korg.com/us/support/download/software/1/140/1407/ which contains PCG and KEP files ... what are the chances the KEP file format being used in the Kross 2 is the same as the format used here?
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dfahrner
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Joined: 21 Jun 2008
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Location: Terrebonne, OR

PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dfahrner wrote:
I'm sure there are differences in the Kross 1 and 2 memory configurations, PCG format, etc., but whether or not the Kross 2 can load Kross 1 IMG files? Only Korg knows, at this point...there never was any official documentation from Korg about this for Kross 1 (except for a description of how to load a few legacy and local sample IMG files, I think)...Korg could have included support for Kross 1 IMG files in the Kross 2 (they are just loaded into a small amount of volatile RAM, anyway) but since they've included another way add samples with KEP files, it may not have ben worth the engineering effort to maintain it...some Kross 2 owner could try to load Kross 1 IMG files (you're not going to damage anything, there's no "right" way here) and post the results...or ask Korg support...

Has any Kross 2 owner tried to do this yet? Or tried to load sample files in some other format (like the .KEP format)?
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