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Korg Prologue
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jimknopf
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After the first demos above I was still hesitant: I heavily dislike synth demos with pads drowned in effects: they don't tell much about a synth's sound.

But the last two videos are really a joy to listen to: I fear I fell in love with this sound immediately. And this has not happened to me in a while, not with Yamaha's Boutiques, not with Roland's boutiques (though I halfway like the basic SH-01A sound), not with Behringers DeepMind sound, not with Novation's Peak (which has excellent functionality but no sound I like) or whatever.

And now Prologue, analog with an own, distinct sound 2018: that could become a modern classic!

This is the first synth since the Prophet 6, which got me right from the start. If it would be possible to have something like that in a workstation, instead of AL-1 (which to me sounds harsh whenever you open the filter), that would be a dream combination.
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blazerunner



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bet this wiped the Smirk off Dave Smiths face.
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Bertotti
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

blazerunner wrote:
I bet this wiped the Smirk off Dave Smiths face.


Why? He has some fine boards as well.
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John01W
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bertotti wrote:
blazerunner wrote:
I bet this wiped the Smirk off Dave Smiths face.


Why? He has some fine boards as well.

Indeed! Has (good)history with Korg too.
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jimknopf
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The design of the Prologue seems to have one heavy flaw:
In sharp contrast to my Prophet 6 it has NO AFTERTOUCH!
But on any polyphonic synth aftertouch is a very useful and a much needed and used feature.

This will definitely exclude it from the shopping list of MANY, especially gigging keyboarders. Even at a slightly higher price it would sell much better with aftertouch, which simply is a MUST with a polyphonic synth for many synth users nowadays. Sorry to say it, but that's been a very, very bad design decision, beyond wide spread use, from the Korg management. I belong to a minority, trying to get by without AT if I have to, but even I don't like one bit what they did there.

That alone should be enough reason for Dave Smith to keep his smile. Smile
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Jan1
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...on the other hand, KORG actually decided to implement a quality full-sized keybed in this synth, even one with 5 octaves.
While this may have been taken for granted in past times, nowadays with plastic breakable mini-keys flooding the place this no longer is self-evident, so even if there is no aftertouch (which I too deplore), at least KORG deserves a thumbs up for acknowledging the importance of having a good keybed under your fingers.

As far as the suggestion is concerned to create a hybrid type of workstation: I would love to see that as well.
It would be great to have a real analog synth integrated into a workstation, and since KORG has the experience and know-how to pull it off, why not take advantage of it and be the first to take the next step?

I hope that those who go to NAMM take the time to ask KORG about the option to create your own oscilators and effects for the Prologue.
Effects vary greatly in their need for processing power, so how does this work for third parties intending to write their own effects?
Likewise, what does KORG mean with loading your own oscillators, can they be multi-samples, or single shot samples, how much memory is available for them?
It is still unclear what KORG has in mind with this expandability.
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CharlesFerraro
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some general observations:

Specs missing from the 8 besides voice count include unison spread and that analog low frequency compressor.

The jacks for either model are unbalanced which hurts but it isn't the end of the world.

Can't find any info on the User oscillators. My guess would be that the section is for wavesequencing type stuff (the example User oscillator is a wavetable). I'd be willing to bet you use the software to draw your own waveforms and upload single cycles like Zebra or MPowerSynth. But I don't know why that would require coding with a software development kit... so my assumption is probably wrong.

It's interesting to note that people will also be able to create user effects with the SDK.

The LFO rate is from 0.05Hz to 2.8kHz!

It does Cross modulation AND VPM which is very very nice.

Cross modulation and sync both effect oscillator 2 as the carrier and slave accordingly. That's too bad because I love the sound of the slave also being the FM modulator to the sync master. It's very rare for a synth to have that pathway though (The Korg RADIAS, DSN-12, and Primer are a few examples)

The VPM section is fairly robust, however, it only offers two operator FM. (There is one VPM option that uses a sine with two modulators.) Better than VPM in the RADIAS and seemingly comparable to Gadget's Chiang Mai. Far less capable than MOD-7, or the FM section in the Prophet 12.

All voices pass through the digital effects section. This might mean that you're never actually hearing a voice that hasn't gone through an A/D D/A conversion which could possibly manifest aliasing artifacts. Hopefully there is a true bypass.

Poly Random is an interesting arp setting that plays two note chords depending on what you're holding down. (Not incredible compared to KARMA but still cool).

IMO any synth that only offers one filter is pretty limited... and you can't even change the slope. Still, the filter sounds really good. The inclusion of a filter in the noise section and a highpass switch helps offset this limitation.

Price seems to be 1,500-2k USD.
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Bertotti
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jimknopf wrote:
The design of the Prologue seems to have one heavy flaw:
In sharp contrast to my Prophet 6 it has NO AFTERTOUCH!
But on any polyphonic synth aftertouch is a very useful and a much needed and used feature.

This will definitely exclude it from the shopping list of MANY, especially gigging keyboarders. Even at a slightly higher price it would sell much better with aftertouch, which simply is a MUST with a polyphonic synth for many synth users nowadays. Sorry to say it, but that's been a very, very bad design decision, beyond wide spread use, from the Korg management. I belong to a minority, trying to get by without AT if I have to, but even I don't like one bit what they did there.

That alone should be enough reason for Dave Smith to keep his smile. Smile


Not including aftertouch is a huge mistake. I didn't mind the inexpensive Minilogue but with the 5-octave keybed coming from the Kronos, which obviously is capable of aftertouch, and not including it in a keyboard costing a couple thousand is scandalous. I am at a point where I would probably pass on this for that reason. I wonder if it is something that could be added? Is it in the midi implementation.
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Bachus
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bertotti wrote:
jimknopf wrote:
The design of the Prologue seems to have one heavy flaw:
In sharp contrast to my Prophet 6 it has NO AFTERTOUCH!
But on any polyphonic synth aftertouch is a very useful and a much needed and used feature.

This will definitely exclude it from the shopping list of MANY, especially gigging keyboarders. Even at a slightly higher price it would sell much better with aftertouch, which simply is a MUST with a polyphonic synth for many synth users nowadays. Sorry to say it, but that's been a very, very bad design decision, beyond wide spread use, from the Korg management. I belong to a minority, trying to get by without AT if I have to, but even I don't like one bit what they did there.

That alone should be enough reason for Dave Smith to keep his smile. Smile


Not including aftertouch is a huge mistake. I didn't mind the inexpensive Minilogue but with the 5-octave keybed coming from the Kronos, which obviously is capable of aftertouch, and not including it in a keyboard costing a couple thousand is scandalous. I am at a point where I would probably pass on this for that reason. I wonder if it is something that could be added? Is it in the midi implementation.


What happening this is the 2nd high end synth keyboard from Korg witouth aftertouch after the Kronos LS..
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Sharp
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very nice. It sounds absolutely amazing.

Sharp.
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leonh
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prologue and DAW that is a perfect combination.
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megamarkd
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the look and sound of it, but I can't find a reason to own it and I know I'll get the poops with it's lack of modulation options. With many synths that can do user-waves I am sorted on that front, but I would like to have ago at programming it's 3rd osc for other duties.

blazerunner wrote:
I bet this wiped the Smirk off Dave Smiths face.


Yeah nah not really comparable beyond them being analogue poly's and looking rather the same. Sit them side by side and then try to draw a comparison. You will find two synths aiming at different goals. The Prologue seems to have been drawn from some very firm roots and had some flexibility added to it in the way of the digital osc. The Korg 12dB filter is so much it's own filter, that alone will set the Prologue apart from the Rev2 sonics-wise.
Behringer is given so much grief for their tendency to derive inspiration from others, yet when Korg releases instruments that seem to take a rather large amount of inspiration from another company, there is no problem. I'm not going to bash Korg for taking Dave's layout and using it on the Prologue (as they did with one of their stage pianos too).
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burningbusch
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Korg has been making synths a lot longer than has Dave Smith. If you're referring to the now commonplace "minimoog" layout, yeah lots of companies use that, just like lots of cars have similar layouts for the dashboard and controls.

Busch.
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jeremykeys
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as I'm concerned, pre NAMM, Korg has knocked it out of the park!
The competition had really better have something seriously freaking awesome just to stay viable.
IMHO this Prologue is today what the Polysix was way back in the day.
For those of you who don't know, before the Korg Polysix, to buy a polyphonic synth would cost about as much as a cheap car. The Polysix was $2,000 in the very early 80's when it came out. It also knocked the competition out of the park.
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megamarkd
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

burningbusch wrote:
Korg has been making synths a lot longer than has Dave Smith. If you're referring to the now commonplace "minimoog" layout, yeah lots of companies use that, just like lots of cars have similar layouts for the dashboard and controls.

Busch.


Not the MiniMoog layout, the DSI Prophet Rev2 layout. If they looked more like the first two 'logues, then it could be said that Korg have definite 'logue style, but it doesn't, it looks like a Rev2. Like you said, it's a common layout really, even if they do look very similar. It's been pointed out before that the SV-1 isn't the most unique layout either, although it's not a commonplace layout at all.

I'm not poopooing the synth and saying it's not good because it looks like the only synth on the market that has anything near the same architecture. I dare say that the wooden end cheeks are the only thing that are completely the same and they make no difference to the sound. They won't sound as much alike as the look, like I mentioned in my preceding post, which didn't diss the Prologue at all.

The car analogy is a good one, they are all pretty much alike, but it they are too close, there would be cease and desist letters sent.

All that said, to make a comment like "oh Dave won't be happy about this" is a very ignorant statement considering the actual differences between the two. The Prologue would make me rather frustrated very quickly once programming it as it lacks the deeper programming the all DSI synths have (think assignable modulation sources and destinations). And although there is a huge price difference, I'd pay that to get a synth I can send aftertouch to control lfo rates on or have velocity varying the feedback level. Oh feedback, yeah, can't even fake that on a Prologue as it hasn't got an EXT input to loop it's headphone socket around into. Yeah the two are only similar in appearance really, but I'll won't spend any more time pointing out differences 'cept not all VCO's are created equal.

Although Dave (a person) hasn't been making synths as long as Korg (a company), it doesn't mean Dave hasn't come up with his own ideas or taught Korg a thing or two (I sorta remember a synth made by Korg around 1990 named something like Wavestation...)

Jeremykeys wrote:
As far as I'm concerned, pre NAMM, Korg has knocked it out of the park!
The competition had really better have something seriously freaking awesome just to stay viable.
IMHO this Prologue is today what the Polysix was way back in the day.
For those of you who don't know, before the Korg Polysix, to buy a polyphonic synth would cost about as much as a cheap car. The Polysix was $2,000 in the very early 80's when it came out. It also knocked the competition out of the park.


Yes and they will mostly do it again with this new one. Good work. It affordable powerful synths like this that made so many fans for them in the 80's, 90's and the new century. I love them for the joy I found in the my first synth and can see this doing the same for the millennial generation.
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